MNR fails to enforce the law

[Bobber]

Folks, this is a great discussion and "fairly clean' on a hot topic. I appreciate the words and thank you for your thoughts. I'd ask that we steer clear of singling out race though, that's not really the discussion, may have played a part in it, but the discussion is more around not fining someone for breaking the law.

DonD is correct, despite the fact that we may find it very difficult to "defend" the ministry in cases like this, they have a very strict set of guidlines that they must follow, are most likely working on a lot of other bigger things that we the average angler is not privy to, and there is just not enough of them nor enough budget for them to really be effective on all the smaller type charges.

I am not using this as an excuse or defending them in this case, cause the CO was there....he saw the dead fish....the guy had no license.....he said is didn't know the law....that's no excuse...he should have received a fine. That's the end of the story.

[bm_attar]

1- Ignorance of the law is no excuse. So all poachers should be fined.
2- MNR are badly understaffed. So, they can't enforce the law every time.

Put it anyway you like, but it's up to MNR to find the right trade-off between the above conflicting facts.

I was stopped by a CO 2 weeks ago. After a little chat, he gave me his card and asked if I could call him directly to report any poaching. This means they are TRYING to do something about it, as best as they can.

My 2 cents.

[Anton88]

Anton88 you say that,

In your 'land', you're considered part of the majority so you have more rights than foreigners.

And right now, you're a European in Canada, so that would make you a foreigner so this means that you have more rights then Canadians.

If what you say is true then it's a win-win situation for you, eh?

Unfortunatley I'm not a "Visible minority" so I dont have as many rights as they do.. But I also have some common sense and follow regulations..
I don't abuse of the system because of my background.. (like some do)

Also if some canadian dude would make fun of my accent or give me an evil look... I wouldn't go to the nearest Human rights comission and complain about it. Thats not our way ..
I respect the man who invited me to live in his house, but I don't try to kick him out of his own house. (And I also don't expect that from others in my own land).
When you come to my land ~ You live according to my rules, laws, and customs.. and don't try to get even with us. Thats the way it should be

[Anton88]

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Le ... 39746.html
Fishing Regulations (Chinese)



Here they are.. nice and clear on the MNR site.

[riverdog]

This just drives me crazy finally the MNR catches someone poaching and yes its poaching and lets them go? I've seen all kinds of different folks fish illegal and yes I wanted to push them in the river but didn't. 6 months ago I armed myself with the MNR tipline on my cell, sounds like that was wasted time . Would the MNR do the same for somone shooting a deer or goose out of season. The same MNR enforces hunting and fishing regulations don't they? The MNR shouldn't discriminate against wildlife their supposed to protect. I said this once before but I've fished the St.Lawerence since I was a kid and only have seen a CO twice in 25 years. I heard and confirmed they were on the river this year releasing 300 000 Americain eels into the river at the Mallorytown landing. Eels anyone? I tried to keep this clean and site friendly, I apologize if I haven't achieved that.

[TLunge]

DonD2 I think youre mistaken unless you meant 90% of oos fish catchers that actually go to court do get convicted, because that is what happens. Judges almost invariably agree with the C.O. and the charge is upheld.
" A C.O. could care less about someone catching an oos fish".......come on...You've got to be joking
TLunge

[DonD2]

Sorry TLunge, I must be an idiot...I'll go back to this gentleman,WHO has worked in the MNR for 30 + years and tell him he knows nothing of what goes on and he's a damn liar.
I'm simply repeating what I heard from the horse's mouth...if you are a CO or work for the MNR in any way, then so be it, consider this an apology and I will never listen to anybody with experience again.

( TLunge please re-read my original post )

[troutnmuskiehunter]

The MNR officers could care less about someone catching an oos fish...they are after the bigger operations that stock freezers and sell fish. The reason I'm saying this is because I work with a gentleman now that was bought out by the ministry when they had all their cutbacks...he was fairly high up in the Administration, and has over 30 yrs knowledge of how they work...end of story..

Sorry, but I have to say that that is the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a while...Maybe that's how the gentleman remembers it 30 yrs back, but I do know that CO's check for OOS fish, fishing licenses, fishing in sanctuaries, checking fish that are transported, etc..etc...etc..

Now, whether a particular CO decides to lay charges is another story and that's possibly what your buddy was talking about...it's up to their own individual discretion, given the situation at the time, whether to lay charges or not....

Some of you may remember some years back where 2 guys were fishing a certain part of Calabogie Lake that was deemed a "fishing sanctuary" even though the other areas of the Lake had been open to Bass season ....they were caught by a CO and were BOTH charged on the spot!!! ...they went to court and pleaded "not guilty" and their defence was that they didn't know that the part of the lake they were fishing in was a sanctuary......they were found GUILTY by the judge, paid a hefty fine, and had there boat and equipment confiscated!!!!....that's how it should be across the board!!!!....

I also remember boating back into Picton Harbour after a day of Walleye fishing on Quinte last November....it was late in the day and almost dark out...there was a guy standing by the side of the launch and asking how the fishing was....after shooting the breeze with him for a few minutes tellin him bout the fish we caught and threw back, he casually pulled his MNR CO badge out, and asked us to produce our fishing licenses...Badger Shark was there with me as well as my son and Sheldon...

Another instance of CO's stepping up.....A buddy of mine and who is a F-H member went to Quinte this spring for a weekend of fishing with his buddies...on their way home they met a MNR roadside check station just outside of Napanee right before the 401 on ramp....every vehicle that was trailering a boat was waved over to the side of the road...they checked all coolers for fish....they all had their Outdoors cards called in to see if they had any previous violations regarding "incorrect transportion of fish"....he didn't leave enough skin on the fillets!!!!!...he was given a warning and told that this warning was now logged in the computer system, and that if he was pulled over again and didn't have enough skin on the fish, he would be charged!!!!

Enough said..................

[DonD2]

Hey..I don't want to get anybody's dander up here...I know how easy it is to say,do or repeat the wrong thing on here and have someone fly back at you saying you are full of it...so to make things easier, I'm throwing in the towel and saying YOU are right cause you said so...
Thanks very much for your interest in this matter.

[Panic Mechanic]

I am against breaking any fishiing regulation and have a goverment back off sign on my land .
But iIf our CO,s are allowed to use thier judgement, I do not want to start second guessing their choice.
I like to give them the space to enforce and educate, I have seen when they have given understanding with great results.
..
Just my opinion, and we all got em.
Panic mechanic

[bardern]

the law is the law regardless of circumstances.

this reminds me why you can run red lights in Ottawa. Is it a matter of degree perhaps? or are the police and CO's not doing thier job by pulling everyone over?

[FishingIsHealing]

To be honest this happens all the time in Manotick, Ontario.

Many of their type don't follow the rules. There is fishing regs in all sorts of languages which is good but pathetic that they can't learn english like a normal citizen of the country. But hey whatever right? We've already decided to turn our country into a total mixed bag.

The point is that this is poaching. I don't care who does it, if they are asian, african, south american, american, it's just as bad. Lots of Americans come up here and poach our waters and rape them to death!


MNR should send this pair a gigantic bill for these fish and ban them from fishing for 5 years.

It seems they were warned and did not listen.......

This type of thing pee pee me off so much. I believe that we have to take care of the fish in order to be able to keep fishing for them in the future. When I see litter I pick it up and bring it home with me to the garbage. Today when I was trout fishing in Quebec, I broke a tiny piece of styrofoam off the worm container (must have been 2mm by 2mm) and when I left I picked the little microscopic piece up because I didn't wnat ot hurt the fish.

To hell with anyone who doesn't respect our ecosystem and the rules that are in place to PROTECT these fish so we can ENJOY our FAVORITE therapy and sport....

Also to be fair, white people poach too. And probably alot more than asians, but poaching is stupid and wrong.

[wolfe]

...the CO was there....he saw the dead fish....the guy had no license.....he said is didn't know the law....that's no excuse...he should have received a fine. That's the end of the story.

That pretty much sums it up to me. No gray areas or exceptions just because the person is of a different race and didn't know the laws. That's ridiculous. Based on the CO's call, if we're fishing out of season and play innocent and confused, then we should be let off? Can you imagine if they were consistent with this type of decision? Sky's the limit on fishing! Come one, come all! (Just play dumb if approached.)

These folks were supposedly warned once, twice, three times and ignored the advice.

Here's the Westport Mirror article (link):

http://www.review-mirror.com/regionalnews/index.html

W.

[Joe28]

The regs are set to protect the fish right? Regs are set to correspond with the particular species spawning patterns right? Unless there is something up that requires something special...

So, they didn't really do anything damaging... a few days prior can't really make that much of a difference. Not that I'm excusing it at all its just thats its not that bad. Still though, I absolutely think they should have been fined. Ignorance is not an excuse...

[RJ]

While I realize this subject is a touchy one in Westport due to the past instances....

I hope all of you who called for this guy to fry the next time you get pulled over for speeding or rolling thru a stop sign INSIST that you get fined...."don't give me a warning officer...the law is the law...fine me please"

Yes it sucks that this happens...but keep it in perspective with the real world...

Upon arriving at my spot today on the St.Lawrence I was greeted by 2 Muslim fellas fishing....and later a Portugese guy from Montreal...all of them visible minorities....How many of you would be thinking they didn't have licenses?...I'll bet a large % of you....and that's shameful....

They were great guys to talk to while fishing and yes they caught a few bass for the table...I just kinda smiled when they said "Bass opens today...been waiting for awhile to hit these buggers"...They knew the regs and had licenses....now I'm not too sure if the 2 "white" guys in the boat 30 feet away did....

RJ