A Warning

[Curtis]

Consider this a warning to everyone in Canada.

We failed and continue to fail to take action on the salmon fishery decimation in BC beginning in the early 1990's.

We are failing to to action on the fishery decimation on LOTW now.

If we continue to do nothing, maybe next is a lake near you!

Here are some new pics of dead LOTW muskie caught in nets on Nov, 5, 2004.

http://members.shaw.ca/msfa/nov_5_2004-nets/index.html

For anyone unfamiliar with the netting, here are previous LOTW pics:

http://members.shaw.ca/msfa/june_8_2004-nets/index.html

http://members.shaw.ca/msfa/aug_2_2004-nets/index.html

[Markus]

Curtis. As a sport fishermen, I don't agree with netting.

But I also don't agree with the use of these pictures. I've seen all these before and in my opinion, they are just used to anger people and try to provoke an emotional response. PETA uses the same tactics...

[gord_p]

Well some kind of response is better than no response, this has been getting steadily worse and spreading to new lakes, with not so much as a whimper out of anyone.

As for emotional, yes it is, very gut wrenching when you are fishing a prolific muskie spot and come across this, I know I almost puked when I saw this net being set 200 yards from a spot I've regularily caught large muskie. Turns out my fears were right, a friend took these pics days after I witnessed the setting of it. I don't expect this spot to be a producer much longer.

By the way, the Nov 5, 2004 pics are brand spanking new, never been seen.

Maybe if one of you came across a scene like these on the Kwarthas, Ottawa, GBay, you might feel a little more emotional.

Oh one more thing, until people started taking and publishing these pics, the MNR flately denied it was even happening.

[steve-hamilton]

I've seen all these before and in my opinion, they are just used to anger people and try to provoke an emotional response.

Well, i hadn't. And before you were shown the pictures, you hadn't.

These are used for a means of education.

Not showing them simply wont make it go away....

Although we (Southern ONtario Folks) aren't directly affected by it, we shouldn't neglect the issue.

If this was happening in the Niagara River, something tells me the responses would be different from people around here...

Steve

[Markus]

I just like to have a few more details, that's all. Who found the nets? Whose nets were they? Were they legal nets? Why were they on shore?

There's more to a lot of stories than just pictures.

For instance...

What if those nets belonged to a responsible, licenced fishermen. A couple of sport fishermen come along and find these nets. Disgusted with the nets, they pull out their knives and clip the ropes. Now the net drifts below the surface for a month before washing up on shore full of decaying fish.

I come from a fishing comunity in the Maritimes and net cutting is more common then you think. I just like to know all the details before we collectively crap on the "commercial fishermen".

Like I said before, I really don't like seeing nets being used and I would like to see the end of them.

[Markus]

Although we (Southern ONtario Folks) aren't directly affected by it, we shouldn't neglect the issue.

Steve, there's nets everywhere down here. The mouth of the Thames is usually blocked with nets. I've hit 2 different ones in the dark this past summer in Long Point Bay and I see them regularly.

I welcome the day they are banned.

[g unis]

as we all would love to see these issues go away they wont until adressed. the mnr is very inadequate on many fronts to deal with fishery issues. they are hamstrung from political aspects of voters and who greases their political party. believe me its a rampant problem, whether it be commercial gill netting to native gillnetting. unfortunately its all about money and where its directed . you grease you get thats the bottom line on this one guys. the sad thing is when the resouces are depleted as many have been theses issues close to our hearts just wont matter. maybe that is what our politicians want to see.. hey i am just another canadian living in a corrupt society like the rest of you. sorry to vent but thats just how i feel. as far as treaties go this is a sham. natives know what buttons to push. the louder the sportsmen and women scream the higher the dollar factor is for them to stop. i hope ya get the picture

[Moosebunk]

believe me its a rampant problem, whether it be commercial gill netting to native gillnetting. unfortunately its all about money and where its directed ....hey i am just another canadian living in a corrupt society like the rest of you. sorry to vent but thats just how i feel. as far as treaties go this is a sham. natives know what buttons to push.

You must see tonnes of waste coming from those money hungry and corrupt Aboriginals you've got down there in Windsor. Geez, that $4+ a year Treaty money to them must have been worth being stripped of their faith and the right to hunt and fish their lands as they see fit. That without being hounded and pigeon-holed by people who's buttons are easily pushed through their own blind ignorance.

One bad apple can spoil the bunch eh. Too bad you'll never taste the majority, and the good, in them other apples.

[gord_p]

Fishing for food, social and ceremonial purposes, which is their traditional right, I do not have a problem. Laundering (food, social and ceremonial) fish through the few legal native commercial licences given is the problem. Sale of (food, social and ceremonial) fish commercially is illegal! However, enforcement officials are unable to enforce the law because their hands are tied by the politicians afraid of roadblocks and protests.

[g unis]

sir this is not one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. yes the natives should have rights the same as other canadaians, as they are true canadians per say. moosebunk its just some of the issues. as i feel you do see the other side of the proverbial fence. injustices from all sides and i would love to see common grounds and common sense. in windsor as you say. we do have a reserve nearby. they have their stakelines to water boundries on st. clair. a injustice to see gillnets 20 miles west of their boundry line. armed with guns for whovever inteferes in their practice.. with depleting walleye stocks on st. clair sir that is injustice in my opinion. we need common ground . could you not give the local sportsmen and women that. i agree the past has been very dismal in what history has dictated to the aborignal people, but if we are going to have a resource proud country we have to work together not against one another.

[gord_p]

Moosebunk, don't you see any problem with the fact that other gamefish are being slaughtered and thrown away wasted in order to catch the walleye? I take it you are a sport fisherman being on this board.

My take is that sport fishing has come along way, we practice and preach catch and release, in the case of my favorite target species muskie, we have higher size limits (54 inches) put in place on trophy waters. Careful management has brought many waters including LOTW back from from a dismal state. We worry about mishandling a fish, not holding it vertically, carefully reviving it to be released, knowing that the next trophy muskie killed may put the fishery into a slide once again.

In the case of LOTW in the 70's all commercial fishing licenses were bought out by the government and commercial fishing ceased in order to repair the damaged fishery. Now we have a repaired world class fishery and have allowed another group of people to commercially net the lake once again. Don't we learn from our mistakes?

Even though native communites on LOTW already benefit greatly from tourism. I for one would be willing as sport fisherman to pay 10 or 20 dollars more for a fishing license to be redirected to the local native communities see it stop. Anyway you slice it something needs to be done for everyones sake, the resource is in danger!

[Moosebunk]

Dudes I can see your points. I certainly don't agree with greed, waste and corruption. A person may be on St.Claire and spot a net and get ticked off by that and feel and think many things negative. It's tricky for me to separate myself from being the "minority" and remember what it would be like to view things from the "majority's" vantage point.

Maybe things are different down where you're from. Having bounced on and off 3 different Indian communities, serviced 6 and settling down with a family and caring for 3 status Indians myself and growing into a large family of native inlaws, and on top of that being a fisherman, I'd have to say I have some opinions on Natives and Fishing. Here in the North in the community of 5000 where I live now, there are plenty of folks who throw nets in the river. A few are irresponsible, and when I witness that it enrages me too. A few times I have found game at the dump. But, this a community of about 4000 Natives and 1000 whites or other. I'd believe that 90% of those Natives have weekly and maybe even daily servings of the game their area provides. Down in the south I would doubt that one would witness even as much as a tenth (maybe even a hundredth) of the Native populaces participating in the hunting and fishing rights they have, and on top of that, consuming the resources in the massive amounts that they could be consumed within their agreements and natural ways.

Agreed though, certain areas do seem to have their problem Aboriginal citizens who blatantly grandstand in defiance of anything remotely ethical or lawful. And, there's probably a few who are just plain stupid about things. But I tell you, there's alot more you likely don't see.

Everyday here, where I am the minority, I have to do my best to keep the emotion in check, even when all around me on the ice and in my fishing boat are others with 10 times the rights. It get's ya jealous, makes ya mad sometimes.

Try and remember when you see a gill net that it may have been put there by someone who's spent a lifetime putting that gill net there to provide a life for himself and family. That it was doubtfully put there by some guy with a BMW and Rolex who owns some big power plant in Sudbury. That the gill netter may not sportfish 200 days a year and "pick" at resources and inadvertantly kill "released" fish. That that particular gill net was put there by someone responsible and hard working and good. Don't just think a F*&^ING NET. Unless you pick it up and see F^*&ING waste.

Later guys. Always a good topic, and a passionate one. Thanks g-unis, gord and Markus and the rest of you for your posts.

[g unis]

heres the deal moosebunk. you sound like a standup guy who cares and i myself believe an individual as yourself matters and can make a difference in all aspects and issues in life. thanks for showing us a few facts from the other side of the fence. remember always share your passions to keep the dream alive. george

[gord_p]

Moosebunk, thanks for your input on this, one thing I must clear up however, nets on LOTW are not "put there by someone who's spent a lifetime putting that gill net there to provide a life for himself and family."

This is a more disturbing problem, people are reporting a dramatic increase in netting all over the lake. The MNR officers are themselves "confused" about the sudden increase, describe the netting as "out of control". Yet until the pictures surfaced, denied and accused people reporting infractions as "making it up". Investigation of reports and enforcement of infractions is non-existant.

My opinion is that enforcement officials are being prevented by higher ups to act. In fact MNR higher ups publicly state everything as fine and a-ok.

This is the very same issue which is destroying the BC salmon fishery. Search google for "Sportfishing Defence Alliance" to see what's going on there on saving the Lower Fraser. They are much more organized and active than anyone, as well as having a fishery on the verge of total collapse. This is what I am trying to prevent here on LOTW.

[Floatinator]

I see " Ignorance" has reached a new level. I wish i could come to terms with this and a foundamental understanding on how this can be allowed in fresh water. Just my 2 cents!