Have been informed of a few Musky Carcasses floating in this stretch.
Understand the people from Carleton University doing some rather sickening research in use of live minnows (6inches) and gorge hooks. Just sounds a little Barbaric.
Know that Muskies Canada was involved, along with the MNR and Carleton U.
Anyone wish to shed more light on this or is this hush hush.
Dead Muskies between 416 and Beckettslanding
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troutnmuskiehunter
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!!!
Brian and other fellow Fish-Hawk members,
Your concerns and interest in the well-being of the Rideau fishery are to be applauded. It certainly is a shame to see any muskie die, but any muskie involved in our study will have two, easily identifiable tags: an achor tag located just beneath the dorsal fin (will have an ID number and phone number for Carleton U) and a radio transmitter with a 6" antenna located in the same place. Unless any of these muskies had one of our tags then I can only presume they died not at our hands. If you can provide more details about the location, timing, and circumstances of the mortality that you have heard about it would be helpful. After tagging fish, we track them for months after release and we have not observed the level of mortality that you describe. In fact, mortality to date has been negligible.
There are lots of live-bait anglers fishing the Rideau. I have no opinion either way regarding this technique. However, I am concerned about the use of gorge hooks in conjunction with long periods between initial strike and hookset. It was our task to find whether there are alternatives to this style of fishing, so we've examined four different techniques: quick-strike rigs, circle hooks, and a J-hook with one-minute time-to-hookset and three-minute time-to-hookset. The latter two techniques are to see if there is a safe way to use J-hooks since it is unlikely a complete ban of this hook type will occur. It is too early to provide any conclusions, but as noted above, we have not observed the level of mortality that you describe.
If you'd like to see some of the results we've found you can browse the pages of the following blog: http://www.projectnoblebeast.blogspot.com. If you have any other concerns or comments don't hesitate to drop me a line: landsman.sean@gmail.com
Sincerely,
Sean Landsman
Your concerns and interest in the well-being of the Rideau fishery are to be applauded. It certainly is a shame to see any muskie die, but any muskie involved in our study will have two, easily identifiable tags: an achor tag located just beneath the dorsal fin (will have an ID number and phone number for Carleton U) and a radio transmitter with a 6" antenna located in the same place. Unless any of these muskies had one of our tags then I can only presume they died not at our hands. If you can provide more details about the location, timing, and circumstances of the mortality that you have heard about it would be helpful. After tagging fish, we track them for months after release and we have not observed the level of mortality that you describe. In fact, mortality to date has been negligible.
There are lots of live-bait anglers fishing the Rideau. I have no opinion either way regarding this technique. However, I am concerned about the use of gorge hooks in conjunction with long periods between initial strike and hookset. It was our task to find whether there are alternatives to this style of fishing, so we've examined four different techniques: quick-strike rigs, circle hooks, and a J-hook with one-minute time-to-hookset and three-minute time-to-hookset. The latter two techniques are to see if there is a safe way to use J-hooks since it is unlikely a complete ban of this hook type will occur. It is too early to provide any conclusions, but as noted above, we have not observed the level of mortality that you describe.
If you'd like to see some of the results we've found you can browse the pages of the following blog: http://www.projectnoblebeast.blogspot.com. If you have any other concerns or comments don't hesitate to drop me a line: landsman.sean@gmail.com
Sincerely,
Sean Landsman
Then maybe YOU are the one who needs a little educating. Making a blanket statement about live bait does no good for anyone. Yes there are certain rigs that can have high mortality rates, but to imply that all live bait rigs kill fish is irresponsible and obviously uninformed.I do not fish with or support sucker rigs used as an acceptable angling method. They kill fish...period.
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Trophymuskie
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I've been told that on any given day you can see a hand full of anglers fishing suckers around the 416 bridge, easy to understand the floaters just downstream from there. 
And Chris come on you don't need a degree in fisheries to know that suckers kill more fish then lures period. Especially when the majority of the anglers using said suckers have little experience handling these fish.
I'm willing to bet that most don't have proper rods, reels, nets. plyers, cutters and everything else needed for proper release as they may fish for muksies but a couple of times per year using suckers with a bobber.
The majority of muskie anglers can't be bothered with fishing with suckers.
And Chris come on you don't need a degree in fisheries to know that suckers kill more fish then lures period. Especially when the majority of the anglers using said suckers have little experience handling these fish.
I'm willing to bet that most don't have proper rods, reels, nets. plyers, cutters and everything else needed for proper release as they may fish for muksies but a couple of times per year using suckers with a bobber.
The majority of muskie anglers can't be bothered with fishing with suckers.
Catch and release them all
Richard Collin
Richard Collin
I spend a lot of time musky fishing in this stretch of the rideau and haven't seen any dead musky floating but im not out there every day. Since the fall fishing has begun out there I have seen numerous boats slow dragging suckers. Now I don't use them,but if there not used properly and without the right rig they will kill muskies. I would like to see this type of fishing stopped, you can catch just as many muskies or more by using artificial lures as you can with live bait, I have personally watch a boat go by dragging suckers and I went in behind with a jerkbait and caught a fish, so in my opinion they don't work that well, however im sure there are muskie anglers on here that will disagree and with just cause. I just think that why take the chance with a musky swallowing a sucker rig when you can catch the same fish on a lure. Just my 2 cents.
And if the people doing the studies are killing fish well then they can fawk off with there study
And if the people doing the studies are killing fish well then they can fawk off with there study
we have to be honnest here and not put are heads in the sand.
all kind off fishing kill musky pure and simple..but there some way that do kill more.
but catching musky in summer in hot water even wit reg lures fishin do kil fish...even wit lures people dont no how fast a musky is in troble wen out off water seen to many time fish out off water way to long to take picts and pict and pict again...
.
there pict wit that musky is worth more then that big nice musky so why take so many pict? and keep the fish out off water so long to die later. and it those happen .
the best thing would be....bring the limit off lengh even higher like 60 inch in all water....would help a bit .
but do have to say live rig is more dangerous for the fish.
and there been some die off right here in the rideau down town last year that was not even relate to fishing.
this is sad to see dead muskies floathing...why..to get a pict or a little rush.
.kill a 20 year old and mabe even older fish for fun..way to go.
joco
all kind off fishing kill musky pure and simple..but there some way that do kill more.
but catching musky in summer in hot water even wit reg lures fishin do kil fish...even wit lures people dont no how fast a musky is in troble wen out off water seen to many time fish out off water way to long to take picts and pict and pict again...
.there pict wit that musky is worth more then that big nice musky so why take so many pict? and keep the fish out off water so long to die later. and it those happen .
the best thing would be....bring the limit off lengh even higher like 60 inch in all water....would help a bit .
but do have to say live rig is more dangerous for the fish.
and there been some die off right here in the rideau down town last year that was not even relate to fishing.
this is sad to see dead muskies floathing...why..to get a pict or a little rush.
.kill a 20 year old and mabe even older fish for fun..way to go. joco
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Big Jim
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huge length limit
Hey Joco, I brought up the old 60" limit years back thinking it was a great idea. 
Then I had a fisheries scientist/slash musky nut/friend, explain to me how this type of a law could play right into ANTI'S hands by making these fish almost impossible to harvest(although we probably wouldn't) and there fore making them sort of a protected pet that we can torture anytime we wish...this is one of the angles that anti's have taken in the past and I am sure would again if given the chance.
Musky Hunter had an article years back on the dangers of this style of fishing(traditionalsucker rigs) and how many fish died from delayed mortality after swimming away with no apparent harm.
Good thought though buddy
BIG JIM
Then I had a fisheries scientist/slash musky nut/friend, explain to me how this type of a law could play right into ANTI'S hands by making these fish almost impossible to harvest(although we probably wouldn't) and there fore making them sort of a protected pet that we can torture anytime we wish...this is one of the angles that anti's have taken in the past and I am sure would again if given the chance.
Musky Hunter had an article years back on the dangers of this style of fishing(traditionalsucker rigs) and how many fish died from delayed mortality after swimming away with no apparent harm.
Good thought though buddy
BIG JIM
B.J.
i do think its a great ideal to bring to 60 inch to all water in qc and ont.
if they want to protect it..some will them still..but some will not and some will just stop fish for them.(very few but some).
i think i am becoming a treehugger.
..dont no why killing sutch a nice fish that as live until there 20 and more years old are kill for fun..not even to eat just for the fun...sutch a waste sadly
just for a brag or a pict or a little 3 min rush..
ho well.
joco.
i do think its a great ideal to bring to 60 inch to all water in qc and ont.
if they want to protect it..some will them still..but some will not and some will just stop fish for them.(very few but some).
i think i am becoming a treehugger.
..dont no why killing sutch a nice fish that as live until there 20 and more years old are kill for fun..not even to eat just for the fun...sutch a waste sadlyjust for a brag or a pict or a little 3 min rush..
ho well.
joco.
Richard, first you start out by saying there are always guys using live suckers then you say nobody uses live suckers. Which is it? You just can't change your mind every time you want to make a point.
All I'm saying is there are several live bait rigs that allow for safe releases that have been used by many, many experienced (some pro) muskie anglers for years. I am a little skeptical of comments made about live bait fishing by someone who by their own admission never fishes with live bait. You should look into live bait fishing a little more before making some of the comments you do.
Gee Richard, if you already "know" that live bait fishing kills muskies, then Sean can forget his study and just ask you. Right?And Chris come on you don't need a degree in fisheries to know that suckers kill more fish then lures period.
Especially when the majority of the anglers using said suckers have little experience handling these fish.
Pure speculation on both of those comments. Calling live bait fishermen "inexperienced" indicates to me that you are out of touch with what is going on in muskie fishing. Besides, there are just as many "inexperienced" muskie anglers out there using artificial, probably more.I'm willing to bet that most don't have proper rods, reels, nets. plyers, cutters and everything else needed for proper release as they may fish for muksies but a couple of times per year using suckers with a bobber.
All I'm saying is there are several live bait rigs that allow for safe releases that have been used by many, many experienced (some pro) muskie anglers for years. I am a little skeptical of comments made about live bait fishing by someone who by their own admission never fishes with live bait. You should look into live bait fishing a little more before making some of the comments you do.
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Big Jim
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quick strike rigs
Hey Chris, you have a good point on the rigs here.
I know several guys in the Kenora area that fish GIANT pike all winter long with quick strike rigs on tip ups, and hardly ever hook a fish anywhere but the lips and corner of the mouth.
We are all fools to think that the odd fish doesn't die at our hands, but these guys would be sick for the rest of the winter if they killed a giant pike...truly caring and experienced anglers.
We have all seen many of these giant fish on Mr. Izumi's show and they pretty well all go back in the drink not much worse for the wear.
BIG JIM
I know several guys in the Kenora area that fish GIANT pike all winter long with quick strike rigs on tip ups, and hardly ever hook a fish anywhere but the lips and corner of the mouth.
We are all fools to think that the odd fish doesn't die at our hands, but these guys would be sick for the rest of the winter if they killed a giant pike...truly caring and experienced anglers.
We have all seen many of these giant fish on Mr. Izumi's show and they pretty well all go back in the drink not much worse for the wear.
BIG JIM
true that lures kill fish to.
we all saw lures get almost fully in there moth.
the best way to not hurt them or kill them is by not fishing for them pure and simple.
even trowing some lures might kill them...could be the lure..could be the bad way to unhook them..by to mutch time out off water..by gething hurt and then get infection..and so on..so even just reg tackle do kill them to.
if you realy dont want them to die..just dont fish for them.
thats is the best way.
joco
we all saw lures get almost fully in there moth.
the best way to not hurt them or kill them is by not fishing for them pure and simple.
even trowing some lures might kill them...could be the lure..could be the bad way to unhook them..by to mutch time out off water..by gething hurt and then get infection..and so on..so even just reg tackle do kill them to.
if you realy dont want them to die..just dont fish for them.
thats is the best way.
joco
1. People generalize way too much. Not everyone who uses suckers are killing fish.
2. Because you don't fish with suckers doesn't make you any better than someone that does.
Have I done it?...Yes.
Will I do it again?...Maybe.
Did I think I was in danger of killing fish with the rig I used?...No more than using any other bait.
RJ
2. Because you don't fish with suckers doesn't make you any better than someone that does.
Have I done it?...Yes.
Will I do it again?...Maybe.
Did I think I was in danger of killing fish with the rig I used?...No more than using any other bait.
RJ
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Relic
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Every year......every freakin year this topic gets rehashed
The wrong rig in the wrong hands will kill a few fish. If you educate yourself on the methods and the previous studies, you in turn will have a more educated opinion.
The rigs that kill fish.....Single hook, and the muskie is is actually allowed to swallow the sucker. Often the angler waits 30 mins before "setting " the hook, effectively hooking the fish in the stomach, esophagus or other internal organ. Obviously the muskie dies from this kind of angling method. Maybe not immediately, but it will die post release.
Quick strike rig......the name says it all. Muskie picks up the bait, you set the hook immediately. This is absolutely no different than using an artificial bait, chances of mortality remain the same, as fishing with artificials
Like RJ, I too have used suckers, and may again in the future. And like Big Jim said, with the use of quick strikes the fish were always hooked in the mouth, and were easily released. I cant always say the same for artificial, as I have had a few fish deeply hooked, hooked in the back, close to the gills........and I have had one fish die that was hooked on a trolled spinner bait Engulfed it from behind and was hooked deeply.
It is not the use of suckers that may kill fish. It is the angling method, specifically, allowing the fish to swallow the bait, that will kill muskies. It is impossible to enforce a law of an angler not allowing a fish to swallow their bait. Sure ban J hooks or gorge hooks, they will just use circle hooks or aberdeens, or siwash etc etc.... If you use the proper rig and the proper technique your chances of killing a fish are slim to none.
The wrong rig in the wrong hands will kill a few fish. If you educate yourself on the methods and the previous studies, you in turn will have a more educated opinion.
The rigs that kill fish.....Single hook, and the muskie is is actually allowed to swallow the sucker. Often the angler waits 30 mins before "setting " the hook, effectively hooking the fish in the stomach, esophagus or other internal organ. Obviously the muskie dies from this kind of angling method. Maybe not immediately, but it will die post release.
Quick strike rig......the name says it all. Muskie picks up the bait, you set the hook immediately. This is absolutely no different than using an artificial bait, chances of mortality remain the same, as fishing with artificials
Like RJ, I too have used suckers, and may again in the future. And like Big Jim said, with the use of quick strikes the fish were always hooked in the mouth, and were easily released. I cant always say the same for artificial, as I have had a few fish deeply hooked, hooked in the back, close to the gills........and I have had one fish die that was hooked on a trolled spinner bait
Engulfed it from behind and was hooked deeply.It is not the use of suckers that may kill fish. It is the angling method, specifically, allowing the fish to swallow the bait, that will kill muskies. It is impossible to enforce a law of an angler not allowing a fish to swallow their bait. Sure ban J hooks or gorge hooks, they will just use circle hooks or aberdeens, or siwash etc etc.... If you use the proper rig and the proper technique your chances of killing a fish are slim to none.
Easy big guy!! Maybe it's your terminology. There are lot's of types of acceptable "sucker" rigs. If you were talking of only one (which I now believe you were) it is typically called a "swallow" rig. That's where the confusion started.No I do not Chris....I said "sucker rigs" not all sucker "set ups" I did not mention circle hooks, quick strike rigs or any other method other than "Sucker rigs" I did not say "live bait" I said "sucker rigs"....do not put words in my mouth Chris...you have absolutely no idea of how little or how much knowledge I have regarding muskies and methods of fishing therein......
Nobody has said you do not have the right to use only artificial......nobody (please don't put words in MY mouth)!!!. You have the right, and like I said if that's your choice then knock yourself out. But by the same token, others have a right to fish live bait rigs, preferably without anyone getting in their face about it. Despite the harm they can do, even "swallow" rigs are totally legal at this point in time.And not using live bait is my choice.....last I checked I have the right to choose.
Now it's my turn to say you have absolutely no idea of how little or how much knowledge I have regarding muskies and methods of fishing, so please don't tell me that "I know all too well". No speculation at all Matt, I have seen the studies and agree that "swallow" rigs (not sucker rigs as you call them) are something that anglers should consider eliminating from their arsenal. Yes there have been studies and yes, swallow rigs are pretty much a death sentence, that's why I don't use them. But I see no problem with muskie anglers using any of the other "sucker" rigs.Speculate all you will Chris.....you know all too well that past "sucker rig" studies have shown bad results....