Catch Limits imposed on Sun Fish

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How do you feel about imposing a catch limit on Sun Fish?

I'm totally against it.
28
26%
I'm totally for it.
61
56%
I have no opinion.
19
18%
 
Total votes: 108

RJ
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Post by RJ »

Don't even get me started on the "bait size" issue... :lol:

The MNR has neither the funds or time to look at this on a lake by lake basis....

I fish a few dozen lakes a year...and in the neighbourhood of 100 plus days on the water a year....sure I see sunfish...but I also see an outstanding fishery in our backyards.....the Bass fishing in SE Ontario is some of the best in the province....world class Muskie fishing in 3 rivers...world renowned Carp fishing in the Larry....and on and on...

I don't ever want to ask the "what happened?" question in my lifetime....

RJ

P.S. for what it's worth...I think this is one of the best threads on FH in a very long time.....
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Doug
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Post by Doug »

Ditto, RJ, this is a thread that I find very interesting and informative, and mostly civil.

Because I am an old retired fart I get lots of time to think about things. IMPORTANT things, like fishing. :D

There appears to be pretty broad agreement here that science-based rules are the best rules to protect the health of our fisheries. There also seems to be the recognition (I should say GRUDGING recognition) that the OMNR is seriously under-funded and probably is susceptible to political pressure. I personally think this is more true with the current premier and Toronto-centric politics that are being practiced, than may have been the case in the past, regardless of which party was in power. :evil: With the NOTABLE exception of the cancellation of the spring bear hunt!!! :evil:

So maybe what we need in this specific instance are zone-wide regulations with exceptions for given bodies of water - in other words, the way that the regulations treat a lot of the other species. I do NOT like to have to be a lawyer to interpret the regulations, but..........it's better than using a sledgehammer to kill a fly.

So for example here in Southeastern Ontario, zone 18 or whatever it is, we should perhaps have a conservative limit of 50 sunfish zone-wide, and no limit on bodies of water where the regional biologists can identify over-populations of sunfish. Like Loughborough, for example. Large bodies of water SHOULD have their own regulations anyways, in a perfect world.

Then small lakes which might be vulnerable to over-harvest are protected by regulation (even if not by enforcement), and larger lakes could support both a "tourist" sunfish harvest, and a "local" sunfish harvest.

I do understand the difficulty of enforcement, for example checking anglers at roads or bridges (or border crossing sites), and proving where the fish were caught, but that also could be dealt with by regulation. "Any person in possession of more than fifty sunfish must provide proof of what body of water they were taken from. A receipt for accommodation from a registered outfitter or resort will suffice for this purpose" or whatever.

I also understand that Resort Operator X, whose resort is on Lake Y which DOES have a sunfish limit, may be at a disadvantage compared to Resort Operator W on Lake Z with no limit. But if the science is good..........X needs to suck it up and diversify their client base away from freezer truck fishermen and the White Bucket Brigade or whomever.

Just thinking out loud here, more than anything. I still want to see targeted sunfish angling where their populations are out of control, but I concede that this is probably not the case for every lake in the area.

Doug
RJ
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Post by RJ »

Hey Doug,

Took a few days to digest your thoughts....well truthfully..I've been out on the ice... :lol:

It would be impossible to even attempt to have a lake by lake regulation....and if it was, it wouldn't take a year to wipe out those lakes that are classed as a "no limit" lake....and wouldn't we want what funds the MNR has put towards more viable things than deciding which lakes can and which lakes can't handle it?.....it would be a logistical nightmare for them...

I'm always puzzled by everyone wanting science-based decisions made but we as anglers think we know better than them?....Loughborough as you say is way overpopulated with sunfish....well it certainly can't be affecting things much....it's a fantastic bass lake and the laker fishery isn't hurting by any stretch from the reports I've seen...seems like a healthy fishery to me.....

RJ
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orrsey
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Post by orrsey »

Loughborough used to be better. Could be the sunfish, could also be fishing pressure, as many people from outside of the region are fishing it more frequently.

orrsey
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Bobber
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Post by Bobber »

First of all, thank you very much for the fantastic insight into your thoughts, your suggestions, your experiences, positions, recognition of the limits of our Ministry, and everything else that was mentioned in this thread. Most of all I applaude you all for keeping the discussion for the most part respectful, on topic, and informative.

Since there were 2 threads on this, I combined them into this one thread so as to have the opinion poll included in the discussion information. I just spent the last hour reading each and every post that has been made here and would like to highlight a few notables and provide some information and questions of my own...

1. For the average day to day fisherman, imposing a catch limit seems to be a favourable preference. Out of a total of 92 votes, 55% are for it, 18% have no opinion, and 26% are against it. I'm not about to analyze this further, but only to ask the questions....I wonder what the premise of people's original votes were, and it presented with "other" less obvious information, would they change it. Something to consider.....

2. It's not a question of removing "all" the sunfish or even "many or most of them", it's a question of what is the appropriate "balance" which will allow other species to thrive, and how do we enforce this? A difficult question for sure....

3. In the perfect world I suppose, regulations would be customized on a per body of water basis, since obtaining this "balance" would be different for each body of water. The challenge here is "how" do you determine this? Scientific knowledge for each body of water may not be readily available and obtaining this data difficult. Believe it or not, there are over 28,000 Lakes and Rivers of varying sizes in zone 18 covering over 138,000 hectars....yes that's right! A per body of water regulation would be virtually impossible and definately complicate the understanding of the regulations. In 2008 the MNR reduced the number of zones in order to try and simplify it's management, based on a whole study of ecological, environmental, and other factors. Fewer zones may simplify things by having fewer groups, however provides a much more diverse area that needs to be considered. Can we identify Large Lakes lakes and apply a per body of water regulation on these? Possible I suppose, but out of the over 28,000 bodies of water there are still over 1,000 of those which are greater than 100 hectars. What size constitutes are Large Body of Water?

4. Removing sunfish from bodies of water may indeed help other species grow and thrive, but how many are required to be removed in order to accomplish this "balance"? Again it's different for each body of water.

5. We (Canadians) rely on our American friends to inject funds into our tourism industry, just like American's rely on Canada to do the same. If it were up to me, I think the US should put a limit on the number of shoes and handbags that Canadians are allowed to take from US outlets, and if not made a global regulation, can you just make that reg apply to my wife? :) But seriously though, there is definately an economic factor that must be considered as well....again a "balance". The economy affects us all. For Lodges which happen to be on a body of water where a limit is imposed vs. one where no limit is imposed, I think we've lost that balance from an economic viewpoint, not just for Ontario, but also for these Lodge owners who earn their living from having tourists visit their establishments. At the same time though, how do we weigh the livelihood of a lodge owner (which doesn't really impact the average fisherman) against the sustaining of our environment and health of our bodies of water? I see a difficult decision needed to be made here unless the Ministry finds a "compromise" which results in a win-win situation for all stakeholders involved.

6. Finally there was some controversy over Freezer Trucks. While the thought of it seems unrealistic, it actually does happen. I've not been made privy as to exactly "how much" it happens, but it does to some extent. I won't go into any further details on this, as it can be viewed as a very sensitive subject, but rather throw out the idea of considernig what kind of regulation can be put in place in order to avoid this from happening.

If nothing else has come out of this discussion, I do hope it has at least illustrated that there are quite a number of things which our Ministry needs to take into consideration when developing these regulations. It's not an easy task. While on the surface it may seem like a no brainer, there are a lot of factors which need to be thought about.

As noted in one of the posts, the Ministry has established an Advisory Council for Zone 18, which has been formed to provide recommendations on future regulations, based on the participation of representatives from several stakeholder groups. I am proud to let you know that I hold a seat on this council, representing you all, the average anglers, and plan to use this site as a communications mechanism to help share your comments and ideas with the Council and the Ministry on different topics as they are explored. While I am only 1 of several different stakeholders, I obviously cannot promise that these recommendations will be liked and accepted by everyone, but what I can promise you is that I will keep you abreast of information that I am allowed to share, and pass along your comments and thoughts on different topics of discussion so that they can be taken into consideration for any recommendations that may come out of it.

Once again, I thank you very much for your participation in this survey and the views expressed.

Cheers,
Rob Atkinson
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Doug
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Post by Doug »

Thanks Bobber!

Congratulations on your appointment to the advisory council! If it is allowed (or encouraged) to function as I think it should, that voice will be most welcome as a note of common sense in discussions that tend to stray a bit further from that area.........

Doug
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Jimmy_1
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Post by Jimmy_1 »

Congrats on the appointment Bobber.

J
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Troller
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Post by Troller »

Congratulations on the appointment Bobber.
I am pleased that we will have a great voice in there as you are.
I am also, as an avid angler thankful, to you for your time and involvement in this project.
TR
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