This is in the Recorder & Times:
http://www.recorder.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1086866
Well, the MNR is apparently afraid of the bad press it would get from doing it's job. I wonder if how many of us white folk would get away dead bass in our possession before the season opens.
" I'm sorry officer, all the regulation books were in chinese, the english copies were all gone.....I didn't know!!"
"No problem. please be careful and have a nice day!"
All this will do is cause even more confrontations.
DropShot'r
MNR fails to enforce the law
Wow... wat a joke... if i went to Quebec and was caught with OOS fish, not to mention dead fish after i had already been told about the laws, i would still get a fine no matter what... ok so there wasn't english signs around where i was fishing so i dont know what the laws are.... im sure a sentence like that wouldn't fly with a C.O.!!! this is absolutly a HUGE problem that must be addressed by the Ministry, we all follow the laws, and we all buy our licenses... and to me its all our responsibility to know the laws and purchase a license... if i didn't know i had to buy a tag, would they let me off bringing home 5 bucks? i think not... the rules should apply to everyone equally, no matter what race, spoken language, or any other reason... im not very happy with that article... i support the MNR, but i would like them to apply the same rules for EVERYONE!!!
JaY
JaY
I agree with the sentiments here, the law needs to be applied equally.
DropShotr any chance you'd be prepared to edit the title of this posting though.
How about "MNR failing to enforce law" or "MNR, Ignorance of the law IS an excuse" Your title is kind of provocative and reflects back on all FHrs. Sorry to get all PC on you, but we do have the power to lobby and we can register protests, but it has to be done right.
Further reading.............Ontario Out of Doors Magazine this month (July) under the OFAH section, read page 3 from the Executive Director and also page 15 MNR Tpis line - Whats the point.
It is obvious there is something wrong between the MNR and the way the rest of us percieve how they should be doing their jobs.
Letters to the OFAH would be really helpful. Complaining amongst ourselves can be fun, but doesn't actually achieve much.
DropShotr any chance you'd be prepared to edit the title of this posting though.
How about "MNR failing to enforce law" or "MNR, Ignorance of the law IS an excuse" Your title is kind of provocative and reflects back on all FHrs. Sorry to get all PC on you, but we do have the power to lobby and we can register protests, but it has to be done right.
Further reading.............Ontario Out of Doors Magazine this month (July) under the OFAH section, read page 3 from the Executive Director and also page 15 MNR Tpis line - Whats the point.
It is obvious there is something wrong between the MNR and the way the rest of us percieve how they should be doing their jobs.
Letters to the OFAH would be really helpful. Complaining amongst ourselves can be fun, but doesn't actually achieve much.
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Fishing 24/7
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Bobber
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The whole story on the availability and willingness to act by the ministry seems to be getting worst and worst each year, instead of better.
It is understandable that CO's can't be everywhere all the time in the blink of an eye. I think we all get that part, since there are only so many to go around, they are not like the RCMP or the local Police force and available 24/7, and let's all face it, funding for the ministry has it's limits, however in a case where a CO actually showed up to a place, after receiving a tip, and caught the perp red handed, they should have received a hefty fine. It's bad enough that admission and photo taking without hard evidence and affidavids is not enough to issue a fine, but when a CO catches something like this red handed, with the evidence, after several tips....and still no fine issued, there is something wrong.
I agree that not knowing the regulations is no excuse, and should never be taken into consideration. If the story went down like this article states, and let's not get too out of hand on it cause we all know that sometimes the media gets their facts mixed up, but if it did, then in this case the Ministry has seemed to have failed to enforce the laws that it has put in place. It is true that a Conservation Officer has the right, as part of his job, to use some common judgement when making a final decision, however if once again this is how it went down, then the CO in this instance did not make the right call. Why he decided to not give this person a fine.....one can only speculate.
I'm putting this one back up for discussion, with a STRONG CAUTION to be civil and respectful of others. Let's just have a conversation about the situation, and not single any one person or group out in it, otherwise I'll be forced to have to lock it up or remove it.
Moderators: Please monitor carefully and put it back into Removed Posts if this gets out of hand. Thx.
DropShot'r, I've modified your title as Terry suggested. I really want to have this conversation, but I'd prefer to do it in a civil manner, something that perhaps could send a message to the MNR in a respectful manner to voice our concerns. I want to tone it down just a little. Thanks for understanding and hopefully we can get this message through.
Cheers,
It is understandable that CO's can't be everywhere all the time in the blink of an eye. I think we all get that part, since there are only so many to go around, they are not like the RCMP or the local Police force and available 24/7, and let's all face it, funding for the ministry has it's limits, however in a case where a CO actually showed up to a place, after receiving a tip, and caught the perp red handed, they should have received a hefty fine. It's bad enough that admission and photo taking without hard evidence and affidavids is not enough to issue a fine, but when a CO catches something like this red handed, with the evidence, after several tips....and still no fine issued, there is something wrong.
I agree that not knowing the regulations is no excuse, and should never be taken into consideration. If the story went down like this article states, and let's not get too out of hand on it cause we all know that sometimes the media gets their facts mixed up, but if it did, then in this case the Ministry has seemed to have failed to enforce the laws that it has put in place. It is true that a Conservation Officer has the right, as part of his job, to use some common judgement when making a final decision, however if once again this is how it went down, then the CO in this instance did not make the right call. Why he decided to not give this person a fine.....one can only speculate.
I'm putting this one back up for discussion, with a STRONG CAUTION to be civil and respectful of others. Let's just have a conversation about the situation, and not single any one person or group out in it, otherwise I'll be forced to have to lock it up or remove it.
Moderators: Please monitor carefully and put it back into Removed Posts if this gets out of hand. Thx.
DropShot'r, I've modified your title as Terry suggested. I really want to have this conversation, but I'd prefer to do it in a civil manner, something that perhaps could send a message to the MNR in a respectful manner to voice our concerns. I want to tone it down just a little. Thanks for understanding and hopefully we can get this message through.
Cheers,
Rob Atkinson
Site Admin (retired)
Site Admin (retired)
What is there to say?!
Too easy to offend on this one!
Obviously they didn`t want to feel the wrath of the ``RACE`` card.
I find it sad that people are so afraid of this.....
Being charged, arrested or fined is not an act of racism...being called deragotory comments from an officer and being beaten before being charged is.
I`ll give a beauty example of a true story where this was tried and backfired on those who tried it...
I was riding on the OC transpo and 2 young males snuck on the back of the bus. The bus driver asked them to come to the front and show their pass or pay the fare. They had neither fare nor passes (Big surprise otherwise they wouldn`t sneak on!) The two young males were black. The driver was white. The driver kept his cool and demanded they show the passes, pay up or get off. When they produce neither he refused to drive the bus til they got off. Well they decided to play the racism card! Told him he was a biggot, racist, wouldn`t let em on cause they were black...yadayadaya.....The driver patiently listened to this. When the two boys were done the rant he calmly asked if they wanted to see a picture of his family.....this stunned them. He pulled out his wallet and showed them a picture of him, his wife (who is black) and his two biological children of mixed race. He asked them again politely to get off if they couldn`t pay the fare. This time, with no ammo left to fight with they sheepishly did.
If Canada is a multi-cultural, nation we cannot allow people of different ethnicities to play the racism card everytime a person of authority who is white tries to enforce the laws of the nation, province, municipality etc.
And if we continue to hire spineless people who do easily back-down, then expect it to remain status-quo.
Just my $.02 and in no means meant to offend anyone!
Too easy to offend on this one!
Obviously they didn`t want to feel the wrath of the ``RACE`` card.
I find it sad that people are so afraid of this.....
Being charged, arrested or fined is not an act of racism...being called deragotory comments from an officer and being beaten before being charged is.
I`ll give a beauty example of a true story where this was tried and backfired on those who tried it...
I was riding on the OC transpo and 2 young males snuck on the back of the bus. The bus driver asked them to come to the front and show their pass or pay the fare. They had neither fare nor passes (Big surprise otherwise they wouldn`t sneak on!) The two young males were black. The driver was white. The driver kept his cool and demanded they show the passes, pay up or get off. When they produce neither he refused to drive the bus til they got off. Well they decided to play the racism card! Told him he was a biggot, racist, wouldn`t let em on cause they were black...yadayadaya.....The driver patiently listened to this. When the two boys were done the rant he calmly asked if they wanted to see a picture of his family.....this stunned them. He pulled out his wallet and showed them a picture of him, his wife (who is black) and his two biological children of mixed race. He asked them again politely to get off if they couldn`t pay the fare. This time, with no ammo left to fight with they sheepishly did.
If Canada is a multi-cultural, nation we cannot allow people of different ethnicities to play the racism card everytime a person of authority who is white tries to enforce the laws of the nation, province, municipality etc.
And if we continue to hire spineless people who do easily back-down, then expect it to remain status-quo.
Just my $.02 and in no means meant to offend anyone!
From one of the earlier article regarding the incidences in Westport.
"Steve Aubry, the boss at the Kemptville MNR office, said his 12 officers will enforce the law whenever they see someone violating it." [i/]
Here is part of the article from todays Westport Mirror
Aubrey said a $200 'out-of-court-settlement-fine' could have been given to both anglers for taking out of season fish and the fine for fishing without a licence is $125. He also said it was unusual for the conservation officer to arrive at the scene so soon after the MNR TIPS-line was called.
Tim Spence speaks for the Rideau Lakes OPP. He dispatched an officer to the scene on Friday. oContinued from page 1 "I don't understand that (no charges were laid)," said Spence. "I don't know all the circumstances but in my mind if the fish are out of season -no matter that this was a contentious issue in that area before- it probably should have been dealt with," Spence said.
Roger Norris of Norris's Bait and Tackle agrees. "What kind of message does that send?," Norris wonders. "Not to charge them after they were asked to throw the fish back. They didn't, they killed the fish and they were fishing out of season and they had the evidence. Charge them, I don't care who you are. If I was doing the same thing I would be expecting to be charged because it is the law. There is no excuse for them not to be charged," said Norris.
And here is Cransfield s response
MNR Minister Donna Cansfield said, "I think that intent is a huge issue and I don't think there was intent to break the law. I believe these people live in the area and my understanding is that the officer did not lay charges because the bass season opens this Friday and the people who filed the complaint were in fact satisfied and did not insist on pressing charges." "I put my faith in the investigative officer," said Cansfield.
[/b]
"Steve Aubry, the boss at the Kemptville MNR office, said his 12 officers will enforce the law whenever they see someone violating it." [i/]
Here is part of the article from todays Westport Mirror
Aubrey said a $200 'out-of-court-settlement-fine' could have been given to both anglers for taking out of season fish and the fine for fishing without a licence is $125. He also said it was unusual for the conservation officer to arrive at the scene so soon after the MNR TIPS-line was called.
Tim Spence speaks for the Rideau Lakes OPP. He dispatched an officer to the scene on Friday. oContinued from page 1 "I don't understand that (no charges were laid)," said Spence. "I don't know all the circumstances but in my mind if the fish are out of season -no matter that this was a contentious issue in that area before- it probably should have been dealt with," Spence said.
Roger Norris of Norris's Bait and Tackle agrees. "What kind of message does that send?," Norris wonders. "Not to charge them after they were asked to throw the fish back. They didn't, they killed the fish and they were fishing out of season and they had the evidence. Charge them, I don't care who you are. If I was doing the same thing I would be expecting to be charged because it is the law. There is no excuse for them not to be charged," said Norris.
And here is Cransfield s response
MNR Minister Donna Cansfield said, "I think that intent is a huge issue and I don't think there was intent to break the law. I believe these people live in the area and my understanding is that the officer did not lay charges because the bass season opens this Friday and the people who filed the complaint were in fact satisfied and did not insist on pressing charges." "I put my faith in the investigative officer," said Cansfield.
[/b]
From one of the earlier article regarding the incidences in Westport.
"Steve Aubry, the boss at the Kemptville MNR office, said his 12 officers will enforce the law whenever they see someone violating it."
I would think that being in possession of dead OOS fish, fishing gear and no license along the shore line is evidence enough. Plus several witnesses and an OPP.
Here is part of the article from todays Westport Mirror
Aubrey said a $200 'out-of-court-settlement-fine' could have been given to both anglers for taking out of season fish and the fine for fishing without a licence is $125. He also said it was unusual for the conservation officer to arrive at the scene so soon after the MNR TIPS-line was called.
Tim Spence speaks for the Rideau Lakes OPP. He dispatched an officer to the scene on Friday. oContinued from page 1 "I don't understand that (no charges were laid)," said Spence. "I don't know all the circumstances but in my mind if the fish are out of season -no matter that this was a contentious issue in that area before- it probably should have been dealt with," Spence said.
Roger Norris of Norris's Bait and Tackle agrees. "What kind of message does that send?," Norris wonders. "Not to charge them after they were asked to throw the fish back. They didn't, they killed the fish and they were fishing out of season and they had the evidence. Charge them, I don't care who you are. If I was doing the same thing I would be expecting to be charged because it is the law. There is no excuse for them not to be charged," said Norris.
And here is Cransfield s response
MNR Minister Donna Cansfield said, "I think that intent is a huge issue and I don't think there was intent to break the law. I believe these people live in the area and my understanding is that the officer did not lay charges because the bass season opens this Friday and the people who filed the complaint were in fact satisfied and did not insist on pressing charges." "I put my faith in the investigative officer," said Cansfield.
Out of season fish (dead) and no license on top of that.
They should have been fined @ least the $200 for the dead OOS fish
IF the fish had still been alive $125 for no license and that would have been charitable.
They should really have been charged the full lot.
Cransfield's comments are just ridiculous.
Who cares where you live, you break the rules there are consequences.
And saying that charges were not laid because bass opens Friday (which is wrong) makes her and the CO look foolish.
"Steve Aubry, the boss at the Kemptville MNR office, said his 12 officers will enforce the law whenever they see someone violating it."
I would think that being in possession of dead OOS fish, fishing gear and no license along the shore line is evidence enough. Plus several witnesses and an OPP.
Here is part of the article from todays Westport Mirror
Aubrey said a $200 'out-of-court-settlement-fine' could have been given to both anglers for taking out of season fish and the fine for fishing without a licence is $125. He also said it was unusual for the conservation officer to arrive at the scene so soon after the MNR TIPS-line was called.
Tim Spence speaks for the Rideau Lakes OPP. He dispatched an officer to the scene on Friday. oContinued from page 1 "I don't understand that (no charges were laid)," said Spence. "I don't know all the circumstances but in my mind if the fish are out of season -no matter that this was a contentious issue in that area before- it probably should have been dealt with," Spence said.
Roger Norris of Norris's Bait and Tackle agrees. "What kind of message does that send?," Norris wonders. "Not to charge them after they were asked to throw the fish back. They didn't, they killed the fish and they were fishing out of season and they had the evidence. Charge them, I don't care who you are. If I was doing the same thing I would be expecting to be charged because it is the law. There is no excuse for them not to be charged," said Norris.
And here is Cransfield s response
MNR Minister Donna Cansfield said, "I think that intent is a huge issue and I don't think there was intent to break the law. I believe these people live in the area and my understanding is that the officer did not lay charges because the bass season opens this Friday and the people who filed the complaint were in fact satisfied and did not insist on pressing charges." "I put my faith in the investigative officer," said Cansfield.
Out of season fish (dead) and no license on top of that.
They should have been fined @ least the $200 for the dead OOS fish
IF the fish had still been alive $125 for no license and that would have been charitable.
They should really have been charged the full lot.
Cransfield's comments are just ridiculous.
Who cares where you live, you break the rules there are consequences.
And saying that charges were not laid because bass opens Friday (which is wrong) makes her and the CO look foolish.
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JRSuprstar
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Well hey, maybe I'll go bass fishing tonight since bass opens this Friday. And maybe next April I'll go walleye fishing since walleye opens sometime in 2009.Dartee wrote:And here is Cransfield s response
MNR Minister Donna Cansfield said, "I think that intent is a huge issue and I don't think there was intent to break the law. I believe these people live in the area and my understanding is that the officer did not lay charges because the bass season opens this Friday and the people who filed the complaint were in fact satisfied and did not insist on pressing charges." "I put my faith in the investigative officer," said Cansfield.
(kidding, obviously!) Hell let's all go dolphin fishing since there's a remote chance that dolphins will be fair game in territorial waters at some point before the next ice age!What a crock of $h!t. I can't believe the MNR would be this lax over something because of the possibility of having the race card played against them.
Can anyone translate the non-english regulations to see if is says the rules are different dependant on the mother tongue of the person fishing?
Argh, I'm just so mad about all of this right now.
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almontefisher
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The worst part of this is the Co not knowing any better just set a precidence. Now how do you charge anyone for anything because if you do not charge one person for a crime then the others should get a warning as well. Precidences are very important in law and usually result in changes to major laws. Just wait for the change to happen soon.