In October there was 49 of us that went to the Bay of Quinte in search of trophy walleye. The anglers in attendance either showed up with keen angling skills or are in the process of developing them (like me - I hope). We had tremendous weather and as luck would have it, our timing was extraordinary as the walleye fishing was unbelievably good.
RJ did some digging (thanks buddy) and learned that of the 45 anglers he was able to collect stats on, there were 328 walleye caught over three days. That number is amazing. Like I said - the fishing was unbelievable. I had the time of my life.
Out of those 328 walleye there were 47 that were kept.
The group of anglers that I know cares very deeply about fish stocks and the state of recreational angling. And as individuals will be individuals - some like to eat their catches (within the regulations) and others like to release all their catches. Some are into angling for the sum-total experience of catching - others are into it for the sum-total experience of catching and eating. The rest of us are somewhere inbetween those reasons.
It has really bothered me that such a great group of anglers could have a black cloud hung over what was the fishing adventure of a lifetime. I'm talking about some rumours that we were made privy to - rumours that were floating around The Bay area that really tried to make us look bad in regard to the fish that were kept. If you ask me, those rumours were a crime!
For starters, the rumours did nothing to put things into perspective. Let's look at our numbers in a different light. What if 45 individual anglers who fished from the shore caught 47 fish and kept them? I doubt that would get the same reaction as our group did. Why not? What is the difference? In reality there is no difference except that we were ONE group, one single ENTITY. And the perception of ONE ENTITY keeping 47 fish is very different from the perception of 45 individual anglers keeping 47 fish.
What follows is going to be a very delicate thing for me to put into perspective so I am going to say right off that I am proud to be associated with all the anglers who hang out on Hawk Talk and who join us for our week-ends. Anyone who is able to spread a rumour about Hawk Talkers that puts us in such a bad light is totally ignorant to what this bunch of anglers is all about. We're gonna have to treat these rumours as if we saw them in the National Enquirer, OK?
All that being said, I am going to boast that I have been trading emails with Gord Pyzer lately. Thanks goes to Big Jim for e-troducing me (is that a new word?) to Mr. Pyzer. Yup - he is Mr. Pyzer to me. I have long been a fan of Mr. Pyzer because for years he has written articles that I read over and over and over again, and years later I pull out a magazine and read Mr. Pyzer's article over again and probably again. Then I read it again. Get the picture? I like his stuff. He is like the Bill Nye (the science guy) of fishing. A biologist, he takes scientific fact and writes it into an article that helps you to catch fish. Beautiful!
Mr Pyzer comes with the following credentials:
- Gord is a retired MNR Manager (Kenora District)
- Fishing Editor, Outdoor Canada Magazine
- Field Editor, In-Fisherman Magazine and Television
- Co-Host, The Real Fishing Radio Show
- President, Canadian Angling Adventures Ltd.
- Outdoor Editor/Columnist, The Kenora Daily Miner and News, The Fort Frances Times, Just Fishing and Grainews
I told Mr Pyzer about our fishing week-end at the Bay of Quinte. I told him about the rumour mill. I told him what a great bunch of anglers attended that Week-end Adventure. And he sent me an article that I have permission to reproduce on Fish-Hawk.Net.
Knowing how sensitive we all can be when it comes to our own opinions about responsible angling, Mr. Pyzer made the following very clear to me - and I don't think he would mind me sharing this with you - he said...
I have to emphasize one thing, however, and that is that nothing the fellows did on the weekend was illegal. They were all totally within their rights to keep the fish they did. So one cannot be critical of them.
The "problem" is that a well written science based fisheries management plan with input from all users - that lays out the fisheries options and the consequences - has never been prepared and approved.
In the end, that is the government's problem and their shame. Unfortunately, as anglers, we may all have to live with the consequences.
In one of our earlier exchanges, Mr. Pyzer and I discussed the interests of various parties when it comes to the Bay of Quinte. Nobody was left out of the discussion and he summed it up nicely - he said
No one is wrong and everyone is right!
We see it all the time on Hawk Talk. We have discussions about fishing topics and the opinions come at us from all ends of the spectrum. On the topic of trophy walleye in the Bay of Quinte, we have not been exposed to a point of view that is as knowledgeable and as steeped in science as Gord Pyzer's. Like anyone else's point of view that gets expressed on Hawk Talk, you don't necessarily need to like someone else's point of view, but it is undeniable that being exposed to them helps everyone to know more stuff. And knowing more stuff is never bad. In the end we all make our own choices.
It is with great pleasure that I give you a link to an article Gord Pyzer wrote in 1999. It appeared in In-Fisherman magazine, won Mr. Pyzer a national writing award, and is reproduced on Fish-Hawk.Net with Mr Pyzer's permission. When I read it my first impression on a number of fronts was - what a balancing act! Here it is...
The Future of Fishing in Canada - Two Paths Converge in the Forest
http://www.fish-hawk.net/hawkshow/wordo ... ofgord.php
The Word of Gord (I couldn't resist the play on words)
The Word of Gord (I couldn't resist the play on words)
Fishhawk
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
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Wall-I-Guy
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- Location: Kanata,Ontario
Thanks Fishhawk
Very truthful reading.
Now you can see why MNR people don't want to talk much about Native rights etc. because of what it could cost the province short term but like everything else is anyone in Government thinking about LONG TERM.
Our Fisheries and Forests need to be Nurtured because trees and fish do not grow as fast as us Human Beings.
Having fished in Cuba and having seen 10lb 12 lb and 20 lb Large mouth bass you can appreciate what warm waters due to a fishes growth cycle because of the abundance of bait fish and no need for a dormancy period in the cold weather.
It's time this WHOLE COUNTRY got on the SAME page regarding Forest and Fisheries Management.
Brian
Very truthful reading.
Now you can see why MNR people don't want to talk much about Native rights etc. because of what it could cost the province short term but like everything else is anyone in Government thinking about LONG TERM.
Our Fisheries and Forests need to be Nurtured because trees and fish do not grow as fast as us Human Beings.
Having fished in Cuba and having seen 10lb 12 lb and 20 lb Large mouth bass you can appreciate what warm waters due to a fishes growth cycle because of the abundance of bait fish and no need for a dormancy period in the cold weather.
It's time this WHOLE COUNTRY got on the SAME page regarding Forest and Fisheries Management.
Brian
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Corey Gaffney~BAssboy
- Participant
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- Location: Ottawa
Article
Myself i think it's up to us to preserve our fisheries, i believe if the laws were strickend it would still not affect those ppl that keep fish and too many at that. 6 in posession goes for those in your frezzer at home too. When i tell ppl that i fish bass tournaments for the love of the sport and release everything, they give me this funny look like, your an idiot and why fish if you don't keep. there's just too many ppl out there that don't understand the fun is in the catching and not in the keeping. I too have great respect for Gord Pyzer i remebering watching him well growing up.
Me myself i think slot sizes should be put on all lakes as well as closed seasons. It's sounds like a blast you guys had wish i could have went, but with my hours i've been working it just wouldn't fit in my schedule. Glad you guys had a blast. keep up the good reports FH. Also can't wait till next season of renegade. And i made a post at the beginning of the season saying that i would do a recap of my first season in a highly competetive circut. So here goes.
We started off on the "MISS" one of the waters i've know well but fish mostly later in the year so didn't know if my fish were gonna be up feeding.Anyway ended up with 11 1/2 lbs. One close to 4lbs. Second stop was on the ottawa river one i was very worried about due to the fact that we never fish water of that clarity. We struggled to catch the 3 we caught and came up with a 6.72lb bag very discouraging. then we moved onto the St.Lawernce where we spent all day sight fishing spooky smallies.Came out with a 13lb bag and one lonner of a largie at 3.9lbs we were very happy with this weight due to the tough day everyone else had it put us in the top 20 in like 17th. As the season progressed we moved to the much awaited newboro where i hit a 5+lber in prefish but came up with 11lbs on the tournament day the big fish were just nowhere to be found that day. And the same was said for the rideau river which was the last tournament of the season, we had close to 11 lbs. So me and my partner decided that we had to join the fall brawl since it was on the "MISS" . It just so happens that we hit some nice fish and placed 4 over all. Putting our cheque towards season for 2006. We came out with 13lbs 4 fish. And one brute smallie the rest largies. I would post some pics but i'm not sure how lol.
Corey
Me myself i think slot sizes should be put on all lakes as well as closed seasons. It's sounds like a blast you guys had wish i could have went, but with my hours i've been working it just wouldn't fit in my schedule. Glad you guys had a blast. keep up the good reports FH. Also can't wait till next season of renegade. And i made a post at the beginning of the season saying that i would do a recap of my first season in a highly competetive circut. So here goes.
We started off on the "MISS" one of the waters i've know well but fish mostly later in the year so didn't know if my fish were gonna be up feeding.Anyway ended up with 11 1/2 lbs. One close to 4lbs. Second stop was on the ottawa river one i was very worried about due to the fact that we never fish water of that clarity. We struggled to catch the 3 we caught and came up with a 6.72lb bag very discouraging. then we moved onto the St.Lawernce where we spent all day sight fishing spooky smallies.Came out with a 13lb bag and one lonner of a largie at 3.9lbs we were very happy with this weight due to the tough day everyone else had it put us in the top 20 in like 17th. As the season progressed we moved to the much awaited newboro where i hit a 5+lber in prefish but came up with 11lbs on the tournament day the big fish were just nowhere to be found that day. And the same was said for the rideau river which was the last tournament of the season, we had close to 11 lbs. So me and my partner decided that we had to join the fall brawl since it was on the "MISS" . It just so happens that we hit some nice fish and placed 4 over all. Putting our cheque towards season for 2006. We came out with 13lbs 4 fish. And one brute smallie the rest largies. I would post some pics but i'm not sure how lol.
Corey
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Legend
- Silver Participant
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- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:45 am
- Location: Kitchener, Ontario
- Contact:
Rumours that hurt
It saddens me to some extent to see how a group of self-enlightened liberals can cast dispersions on any group considered an intruder into their domain.It's not just the BOQ, but several places in the province where a small group, hoping to covet our natural resources for themselves, seem to be able to stoop to any and all levels to acheive their goal. That being, the place to themselves.
There's not much that we at Fish-Hawk.Net can do to remedy the problem beyond carrying ourselves with poise and stature when confronted with this kind of inuendo.
FWIW, Next year, we should entertain the idea of having a BOQ Sheepshead Fishing Adventure where we may get a few incidental Walleye catches. I wonder how the locals would feel about that?
Legend
At the end of Gord's article he wrote...
If First Nation leaders, Federal and Provincial Governments, tourist operators, resident anglers, non-resident anglers, and industrial users can't park their vested self interests and cooperate … the resource will be sacked and pillaged … and everyone will lose.
I think the point of Gord's article is summed up by that paragraph.
I ain't no biologist, and I realize that the reality of the situation is more complicated than what I am about to type, but when I put it in the following terms I find that I can understand the inherent complexities better.
Considering the sources of all pressure that exist on a fishery - how much pressure can a fishery handle and sustain itself forever? It seems to me that this is a number. It's a number that has to be incredibly difficult to calculate if not incredibly difficult to even estimate.
But what if that number was determined or even estimated with some measure of confidence - and we called it the pressure equilibrium. And let's say that this pressure equilibrium is 100 harvested fish / year for example. Too much pressure and the stock decreases. Too little pressure and the stock increases.
So there are 100 fish / year to divide among all the interested parties. Figuring out the proportion of rights (in terms of fish / year) that can be afforded each interested party is an enormous political problem. How the heck is that supposed to be resolved? Could you get all the parties to sit at a table and divide the pie over a cup of coffee? That would be ideal. All the parties would cut a deal that all have to abide by.
That is not very realistic!
Does it take the Government to say "OK all interested parties, none of you can agree on anything so we are going to tell you, using Government's best judgement, about what is fair and what proportion of those 100 fish each of you interested parties can take."
Good luck!
Even representing the problems in the simplest of ways shows how brutal it is to find a resolution to the issue. The reality is infinitely more complicated than I am capable of portraying.
Can the MNR even measure what the equilibrium is? What if the Government's current fisheries management policy allows for a harvest that exceeds the real equilibrium? Yikes!
When I look at RJ's post asking for everyone's opinions on the regulations, I wonder if the regulations are a part of some plan to manage a pressure equilibrium. I hope they are not a part of a plan to simply slow down the decline. I want to keep fishing until I die, not until there is nothing to fish for.
That's just some of the deep thoughts I had when I read Gord Pyzer's article. And I can only come to the same conclusion - that Government is the only entity in the equation with a chance of pulling it all together. And how do you get Government to step up to the plate? I mean really step up to the plate!
If First Nation leaders, Federal and Provincial Governments, tourist operators, resident anglers, non-resident anglers, and industrial users can't park their vested self interests and cooperate … the resource will be sacked and pillaged … and everyone will lose.
I think the point of Gord's article is summed up by that paragraph.
I ain't no biologist, and I realize that the reality of the situation is more complicated than what I am about to type, but when I put it in the following terms I find that I can understand the inherent complexities better.
Considering the sources of all pressure that exist on a fishery - how much pressure can a fishery handle and sustain itself forever? It seems to me that this is a number. It's a number that has to be incredibly difficult to calculate if not incredibly difficult to even estimate.
But what if that number was determined or even estimated with some measure of confidence - and we called it the pressure equilibrium. And let's say that this pressure equilibrium is 100 harvested fish / year for example. Too much pressure and the stock decreases. Too little pressure and the stock increases.
So there are 100 fish / year to divide among all the interested parties. Figuring out the proportion of rights (in terms of fish / year) that can be afforded each interested party is an enormous political problem. How the heck is that supposed to be resolved? Could you get all the parties to sit at a table and divide the pie over a cup of coffee? That would be ideal. All the parties would cut a deal that all have to abide by.
That is not very realistic!
Does it take the Government to say "OK all interested parties, none of you can agree on anything so we are going to tell you, using Government's best judgement, about what is fair and what proportion of those 100 fish each of you interested parties can take."
Good luck!
Even representing the problems in the simplest of ways shows how brutal it is to find a resolution to the issue. The reality is infinitely more complicated than I am capable of portraying.
Can the MNR even measure what the equilibrium is? What if the Government's current fisheries management policy allows for a harvest that exceeds the real equilibrium? Yikes!
When I look at RJ's post asking for everyone's opinions on the regulations, I wonder if the regulations are a part of some plan to manage a pressure equilibrium. I hope they are not a part of a plan to simply slow down the decline. I want to keep fishing until I die, not until there is nothing to fish for.
That's just some of the deep thoughts I had when I read Gord Pyzer's article. And I can only come to the same conclusion - that Government is the only entity in the equation with a chance of pulling it all together. And how do you get Government to step up to the plate? I mean really step up to the plate!
Fishhawk
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
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Trophymuskie
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roughrider
- Silver Participant
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:51 pm
This is just an observation,but having seen the lack of interest in serving and overseeing the Bay of Quinte Walleye stocks, admittedly one of the top 3 walleye destinations in the world, we have a mouse catching post that gets 3 times as many views as this post.
Nice info Mike,sorry it draws little interest.
roughrider out.
Nice info Mike,sorry it draws little interest.
roughrider out.
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fishforfun
- Gold Participant
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- Location: Georgetown Ont.
Roughrider very good point, I took the time this morning to read Gords article sad but very true. Fact is post an out of season pic, hold a fish the wrong way etc. and you have passionate battle ensue, nothing wrong with that. The big picture ignore it, no comment, that's politics etc. 
TM no insult here I know you will do more than just fight from behind your pc. More views on a mouse catching post 
Thanks Mike but if you hadn't made this a sticky it would have disappeared very quickly!
Martin
TM no insult here I know you will do more than just fight from behind your pc. More views on a mouse catching post Thanks Mike but if you hadn't made this a sticky it would have disappeared very quickly!Martin
Don't be sorry RR - I'm not surprised at all by the lack of comments.roughrider wrote:This is just an observation,but having seen the lack of interest in serving and overseeing the Bay of Quinte Walleye stocks, admittedly one of the top 3 walleye destinations in the world, we have a mouse catching post that gets 3 times as many views as this post.
Nice info Mike,sorry it draws little interest.
roughrider out.
If people read it that is good too.
Fishhawk
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"