R22 Freon is regarded as Haz Mat primarily due to upper atmosphere damage when in the gaseous state.
I'm not suggesting that it is good to be in the river, it is certainly not.
But the effects on the river will be less than if this were many substances that are also deemed haz-mat.
The toxicity for R22 freon available here...
http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r22.pdf
Public Works Canada will be accountable to MOE for the release - but primary concern will be atmosphere - not river.
Freon going into the ottawa river!!
-
Paulie Walnuts
- Participant
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:23 pm
-
rodbreaker
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:13 pm
- Location: Ottawa
Paulie,is that a self portraite 
Its the same thing with freon(R-134a)in the auto industry,harmfull to the atmospere.When i repair a cars ac unit,i am required to record the amount taken in and the amount re-charged into the vehicle.Strict methods for checking for leaks as well as tagging the vehicle with all the info along with my name and cert. number.One mistake and i could be looking at a 50.000 fine!Thats why ac service on your cars are so expensive now
Its the same thing with freon(R-134a)in the auto industry,harmfull to the atmospere.When i repair a cars ac unit,i am required to record the amount taken in and the amount re-charged into the vehicle.Strict methods for checking for leaks as well as tagging the vehicle with all the info along with my name and cert. number.One mistake and i could be looking at a 50.000 fine!Thats why ac service on your cars are so expensive now
Dirty....mean....mighty unclean.
-
rodbreaker
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:13 pm
- Location: Ottawa
Maybe so,but the oil mixed in with it does not.It remains in the water.Paulie Walnuts wrote:R-22 could not be released into the river in a liquid state. The air temperature would have to be a minimum -75f. Has anyone ever taken their bbq tank and poured liquid propane out of it? It escapes as a gas and evaporates immediatly
Dirty....mean....mighty unclean.
If auto shops and mechanics are strictly monitored on the input and output of R132A. Should the vehicle owner be responsible for the leakage and the MOE do a full investigation with possible criminal charges when obvious wilful neglect can be proven? Or is the considered pre paid with the air conditioning tax at the time of sale of a new vehicle?
Maybe we should do away with air conditioning in vehicles? But who am I kidding, try and find a new vehicle that does not have it, I think it would require a special order.
Just imagine, people stop driving less because it isn't as comfortable and the cyclical effect that could have. Less gas consumed, less wear and tear on the vehicle, vehicle last longer. Over all we could consume less of a lot of things.
Too bad something completely enviromentally safe couldn't do the job freon does.
But lets keep this conversation going the more we discuss / debate the more informed we all can be and thus make better informed comments and decissions later.
(Mods- don't worry about me, people can post negative or positive direct comments and I don't take it personal)
Maybe we should do away with air conditioning in vehicles? But who am I kidding, try and find a new vehicle that does not have it, I think it would require a special order.
Just imagine, people stop driving less because it isn't as comfortable and the cyclical effect that could have. Less gas consumed, less wear and tear on the vehicle, vehicle last longer. Over all we could consume less of a lot of things.
Too bad something completely enviromentally safe couldn't do the job freon does.
But lets keep this conversation going the more we discuss / debate the more informed we all can be and thus make better informed comments and decissions later.
(Mods- don't worry about me, people can post negative or positive direct comments and I don't take it personal)
The following news story jives with the comments here, that most will have evap'd into the air...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2 ... ml?ref=rss
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2 ... ml?ref=rss
-
eye-tracker
- Gold Participant
- Posts: 1998
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:23 am
- Location: Perth, Ontario
- Contact:
Guys here is a little info on Freon 22.
Anything above -40c it is a vapour. (boiling temp at 1 atmosphere)so when it leaked it was a liquid for a few seconds till it started to boil and evaporate.
The chlorine in this refrigerant is harmfull to the ozone layer and the small quantity of mineral oil in the refrigerant is what would be damaging to the water.
The leak I believe was in the condenser that cools the refrigerant with river water and it is a outside contractor that works on and repairs the system not usually public works.
There are ref that are safer for the enviroment(no chlorine) that are in use today ( R134a car a/c) every ref has a ozone depletion rating wich determines how bad it is on the ozone, R22 is one of the worst and R134a is one of the best.
I hope this helps understand the situation and don't believe everything you read in the papers.
Anything above -40c it is a vapour. (boiling temp at 1 atmosphere)so when it leaked it was a liquid for a few seconds till it started to boil and evaporate.
The chlorine in this refrigerant is harmfull to the ozone layer and the small quantity of mineral oil in the refrigerant is what would be damaging to the water.
The leak I believe was in the condenser that cools the refrigerant with river water and it is a outside contractor that works on and repairs the system not usually public works.
There are ref that are safer for the enviroment(no chlorine) that are in use today ( R134a car a/c) every ref has a ozone depletion rating wich determines how bad it is on the ozone, R22 is one of the worst and R134a is one of the best.
I hope this helps understand the situation and don't believe everything you read in the papers.
-
FISH-A-LOT
- Participant
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:53 am
To----MLR
Dude, sorry, I am assuming your a fellow dude.....you made great points earlier in your 1st post about the use of cars, heating etc.....with that in mind and your solid ground in posting an arguement of your frame of mind....I take it then; you travel everywhere by method of bicycle to work/school (if you do attend either) and have attested in riding in any method of a fueled vehicle, you heat your home with organic material and dispose of any/all waste accordingly (yes, that includes "all" waste)...my question is as follows:..how do you fish (as an active/consersative) fisher-person with the equipment you possess without exposing "any' risk to our great water systems, how do you get there and how was your input/message signifant to the original posting of a fellow "concerned" angler to our waterways? Would really like to hear your honest and educated input to these matters other than a rebuttal to a post....my penny for thoughts........10-4----rog....over and out.....
refteck has it right. At atmospheric pressure R22 boils at -40* so it would be impossible to dump it in the river as a liquid. It would flash to vapour as soon as it hit the atmosphere. R113 on the other hand boils at about 120*F at atmospheric pressure. Sounds to me like an equipment failure that caused the leak. It may be a shame but still an accident. i highly doubt with all the controls, fines etc in place regarding refrigerants anyone would intenionally dump a charge like that. Just my 2 cents. Mike
refteck you a ref tech?
refteck you a ref tech?
Re: To----MLR
I never implied that I am the role model for saving the enviroment, but I do make an effort to reduce the amount of driving that I do. When I buy a product, I think about process in which it is made (for fun research the Toyota electric hybrid. Less harm to the enviroment building the cadillac escalade than the toyota) I try to buy local as much as I can, especially if its produced local.FISH-A-LOT wrote:Dude, sorry, I am assuming your a fellow dude.....you made great points earlier in your 1st post about the use of cars, heating etc.....with that in mind and your solid ground in posting an arguement of your frame of mind....I take it then; you travel everywhere by method of bicycle to work/school (if you do attend either) and have attested in riding in any method of a fueled vehicle, you heat your home with organic material and dispose of any/all waste accordingly (yes, that includes "all" waste)...my question is as follows:..how do you fish (as an active/consersative) fisher-person with the equipment you possess without exposing "any' risk to our great water systems, how do you get there and how was your input/message signifant to the original posting of a fellow "concerned" angler to our waterways? Would really like to hear your honest and educated input to these matters other than a rebuttal to a post....my penny for thoughts........10-4----rog....over and out.....
I fish most but not all of the time out of my kayak, in the lake that is in my back yard. ( I gather my own night crawlers too)
I heat the house with a high efficiency wood stove, the wood comes from my wood lot
Yes Viking I work on comercial food store and warehouse equipment for 18 yrs.
From what I heard the leak was in a heat exchanger that keeps river water and refrigerant seperate. These parts do fail and sometimes there is no advance notice and you loose some of the charge or all of the charge.
The fines are very high for everybody involved if they find fault in the repair or detection process. Just for your info, refrigerants were released legally into the atmosphere only about 15yrs ago. R113 was used to clean the systems after a defective compressor and was just left out in the air in pails or poured into the drains.
From what I heard the leak was in a heat exchanger that keeps river water and refrigerant seperate. These parts do fail and sometimes there is no advance notice and you loose some of the charge or all of the charge.
The fines are very high for everybody involved if they find fault in the repair or detection process. Just for your info, refrigerants were released legally into the atmosphere only about 15yrs ago. R113 was used to clean the systems after a defective compressor and was just left out in the air in pails or poured into the drains.