PAL and buying ammo question

[orrsey]

I have ben meaning to ask around and finally remembered to. This past fall I was at the Rockland Canadian tire buying some shells for an evening hunt. I went through the usual process of showing my card at the ammo cabinet and the guy writing my info down. I then wen to the cash and the lady at the service desk then asked to see my card again....I thought thats fine, so she took it and what surprised me is she took it and took a photocopy of my PAL...is this usual? To be honest I was a little uncomfortable with someone taking a photocopy of a government issued ID. Anyone had their PAL photocopied while purchasing ammo? Firearms?

orrsey

[hook&shoot]

Orrsey,
Never heard of anyone doing that. I managed a Sports department at a CTC for four years and never went past the log book entry that all stores must maintain for Canadian Firearms Center. You may want to give the CFC a call in Mimrimach and let them know this is happening. I am not sure but I think that is a breech of the Privacy Act.
H&S

[orrsey]

hook&shoot,
thanks for the reply, I also found it odd and maybe I will call to see if this is an accepted practice.

orrsey

[orrsey]

Just phoned them and didnt get a real straight answer....The lady didnt seem to know how to answer it. She kept saying that the store has to confirm that it is you buying the ammo. I kept telling her that i have no problem proving that it is me, its the photocopying that bothers me. She just said that they have to make sure it is you and prove that they are checking people before selling the info. After clearing up what I was asking she said it "could be store policy" but no real answer on if they are allowed to take a copy of peoples Identification...

orrsey

[gorfman007]

Man that sounds weird to me i would pursue this further for sure. I have never been asked to supply PAL for photocopying.

[bardern]

If someone has that info what is stopping them from buying a gun via mail from SIR?

[hook&shoot]

You have a good point Barden. Not sure how that would settle out in court if it came to it
Orrsey you should contact CTC head office too to see if they have a policy for all CTC stores as well as notify them that this is happening .
H&S

[orrsey]

So I did some phone calling tonight and not to my surprise I couldnt get a straight answer. I first called Canadian tires head office. I spoke to a lady who was very pleasant and heard my story. She stated that she understood where I was coming from but didnt know that policy herself so she put me on hold to go and speak to her supervisor. She came back on the line and told me that her supervisor said there was no such policy. She then told me to phone the general manager of that specif store and if I didnt get an answer I was happy with to call customer service back and they would look into it. The lady gave me the number and I called right away. I was able to talk to the general manager who told me that his store had no such policy. He said he would lok for this "black binder" and if he found anything he would get back to me......Im not holding my breath. So I decide to call customer service back and tell them that they have employees going beyond policy and photocopying PAL's. I get This guy on the phone and he tells me that Canadian tire store are individually responsible for that kind of stuff and it should be the stores descression on how they take the information of PAL's. I told the guy thats fine, so who is held liable if documentation gets forged? He says...."well I would IMAGINE the owner of the store"

So as you can see this doesnt seem to go anywhere and maybe I am over reacting a bit....but I do know someone has a copy of my PAL.

[Jimmy_1]

Wow!
That does sound very odd.
I hope you find out why that was done! If I were you I'd be calling that CTC store daily till you found out why!

[bardern]

its Federal. I would go straight to the CFC gun cops or the RCMP.

[gorfman007]

I agree with going to the authorities

[Doug]

Well............the person that can FIX this is the owner of that CTC store. He/she is essentially an independent franchisee and is definitely responsible for what happens in their store.

The clerk is a retail employee, you can bet does not make a huge wage (like most retail staff), and guaranteed does not understand the Firearms Act and its provisions. (As an aside, I have met police officers and CFC staff who do not know the correct answers to lots of Firearams Act questions as well, and they are actually PAID to know.)

So you have a clerk who has been told that ammo has to be treated like it is a state secret and/or radioactive waste, and is probably worried about losing their job if they screw up somehow with this highly dangerous stuff. Until and unless the BOSS tells the employee what is supposed to happen, that clerk is not going to change.

So that store owner is the one to give you back your photocopied PAL and teach the staff the correct procedure for ammo sales.

CFC will not be interested in this story, I guarantee it. Neither is the RCMP.

Doug

[bardern]

hmm so you are saying we don't get much bang for our 2 billion dollars Doug?

[hook&shoot]

Dont open that can o' worms!!

[Doug]

well......if Orrsey wants to phone CFC and claim that the CTC clerk is his spouse, who has a PAL and lots of guns and has said that the aliens are calling and it is time to load all of them, THEN there will be interest both from CFC and the Horsemen.

BUT if Orrsey or any other law-abiding gun-owner wants to call CFC to report that he allowed a retail clerk to photocopy his PAL, he will not find anybody who is very interested.

And the Mounties will not understand that there is a problem here.

But the store owner, who actually wants to stay in business (we assume) has a vested interest in ensuring that he doesn't pee pee off even one customer, let alone a whole category of customers (ie gun owners) who tend to buy not just ammo but darned near everything else in the store.

Doug