Fish-Hawk.Net

I thought I would start a new thread on this subject in order to refocus the discussion.

Firstly, thanks to Smitty55 for posting the T. Raison study:

"Exploring the Potential Effects of Lost or Discarded Soft Plastic Fishing Lures on Fish and the Environment"

Here is another good discussion on the subject:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mi ... 8164e6.pdf

I'm seeing many instances of fish ingesting soft plastics and I don't think the problem is going away any time soon. I’d never heard of the problem of pike biting off tails before, so that is a first for me.

Like most anglers, I don't want to contribute to the problem, but certain baits like senkos are so effective, it's painful to stop using them.

As of two years ago, I started fishing with soft plastics made of Elaztech, specifically to experiment with different options. Strike King and ZMAN make soft plastics out of this material.

Full disclosure - I shot some videos for ZMAN this spring.

If you have not used Elaztech, it is fundamentally different than other soft plastic. It is super soft (like a senko) but it is tough like an elastic, and it floats. (ergo. you use a fraction of the baits and loose baits won't accumulate on the bottom.)

I know how passionate anglers can be about the companies they work with, but if you are concerned about this issue, I would encourage you to give them a try.

Lonnie I think you'll find that this is not a popular subject for many of the bass fishermen in particular on this site, as you can tell from the lack of responses. In a way I understand, seeing as how plastic baits are such an ingrained part of bass fishing in particular, although Walleye fishermen as well can use plastics such as twister tails, paddle tails and swimbaits. It certainly seems to be a sore point that gets the dander up on some folks who quickly get defensive on the topic. But that's Ok, everyone has a right to their own opinion. That being said, that doesn't preclude it from warranting a civil discussion as more studies and evidence comes to light on the dangers to many species of fish from ingesting soft plastic baits. Also, some studies are inconclusive on the effect on bass populations and suggest that more studies are needed to provide scientific proof.

For those who are interested in the topic a quick google search comes up with over 4 million results. Here's a quick sample from the first pages.
http://sfrc.ufl.edu/allenlab/Popular%20 ... s_BASS.pdf
https://fisheries.org/2016/01/data-need ... pulations/
http://fishlab.nres.illinois.edu/Reprin ... n_2014.pdf
http://news.aces.illinois.edu/news/new- ... stic-lures
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biolog ... -fish.html
http://www.oodmag.com/fishing/troutplastics/
https://www1.maine.gov/ifw/fishing/repo ... 0lures.pdf
http://archive.bangordailynews.com/2007 ... -of-tests/
https://www.bassmaster.com/news/dont-di ... y-can-kill
http://www.atlanticbb.net/news/read/cat ... affect-tca
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997 ... -fork-bait
http://www.igwmagazine.com/Past_Issues/ ... -LURES.pdf

Cheers

I first started seeing it about 5 years ago. Maybe one fish a year would spit up a senko or I would clean a lake trout and it would have plastic in it's stomach. I'm now seeing it 4 or 5 times a year. Just yesterday a friend of mine had two bass cough out senkos at the side of the boat. At least those fish were able to get rid of them.

I don't think it is a crisis, but the good thing is that there are viable alternatives. It is interesting that the studies mention biodegradable plastics, but the concept of floating plastic is an equally effective solution to prevent accumulation on the lake bottom.

Here are the videos I shot earlier this year. The purpose of these videos are simply to highlight the durability of the Elaztech material.





Cheers,
LK

Smitty,

If it warrants a civil discussion, then have one. But don't throw ANOTHER barb at bass anglers and then wonder why people get defensive. Lonnie clearly wants to have a discussion about plastics, not what type of anglers use them.

Personally, the only plastics I really use regularly are tubes, and I don't seem to lose many of those the way you might with senkos. Could someone more informed tell me, are there many options currently on the market for bio-degradable plastics?

smitty55 wrote:Lonnie I think you'll find that this is not a popular subject for many of the bass fishermen in particular on this site, as you can tell from the lack of responses. In a way I understand, seeing as how plastic baits are such an ingrained part of bass fishing in particular, although Walleye fishermen as well can use plastics such as twister tails, paddle tails and swimbaits. It certainly seems to be a sore point that gets the dander up on some folks who quickly get defensive on the topic.

You keep taking low key shots at bass anglers.
You poke the bear, sit back, and wait for a reaction.
I think you know exactly what you’re doing, and members or catching on to it.

Fish-Hawk has been growing lately, and I think your views should change as the site grows
You could also keep walking that thin line, but I'd bet you're the next one to get the boot if you do.

smitty55 wrote:Lonnie I think you'll find that this is not a popular subject for many of the bass fishermen in particular on this site, as you can tell from the lack of responses.

\\

You're a Joke Smitty, this post you made would have been great for the thread if you would have kept the remarks out.
OP Posted this Saturday Morning, everyone is out enjoying the day fishing.. THAT IS WHY THERE'S A LACK OF RESPONSES


Lonnie, I'm going to take the time to watch your video and read up on that link.

I used to have a cottage on the Bonnechere River and loved using senkos. I stopped when rowing back I couldn't help but notice all of the senkos on the bottom of the river that had grown 10x of their original size. They're horrible for the environment and create a tremendous amount of litter. Stopped using them, they create way too much litter. Apparently they have found a bunch in lake trout's stomachs on Charleston Lake.

smitty55 wrote:Lonnie I think you'll find that this is not a popular subject for many of the bass fishermen in particular on this site, as you can tell from the lack of responses.

Oh Please. It was a gorgeous Saturday morning. Everyone was out fishing. Something you might know something about if you actually still fished.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lonnie, thanks for this info. Very interesting concept.
Something I've often wondered if biodegradable also means that the plastic is non-toxic to the fish.
And these floating plastics, they can still be eaten off the top of the water, no?

After reading all the articles Smitty55 posted, (a lot of log-rolling in there) the take away for me is that this problem is really a trout anglers issue. Seems to me it trout that are affected by this.

But seriously of the 12 articles, only 3 actually were of scientific studies (papers published). The rest were magazine articles, referencing 3 studies:

Dr. Danner unity college T.rRason et al Carleton U, and a 1997 study of the mortality rate between soft plastic Carolina rig worms versus live shiners.

This last one does not even fall into this discussion.

Gee of the 4 million results these seem to revolve around the same studies. The internet is like that.

Now before anyone gets their pistolas out. I am in agreement that plastics cannot be healthy, and that a better alternative (real bio degradeable ) are needed.

Oneeleven - Thanks for the question - I have not worked with any biodegradable baits so I don't have an opinion on them. As for fish eating baits off the surface, it's not impossible, but when comparing the length of time it would take for a bait to drift to shore, vs. laying on the bottom for 10 years or more, the risk of floating baits is infinitely smaller.

CN - Yes the studies do imply that trout are more susceptible, and in particular the senko-style baits are the most problematic. The increasing number of incidents I'm seeing personally with bass is what is most alarming to me. It's all a matter or your perspective. It bothers me to know that my discarded plastics could be be eaten by fish - regardless if there is a population level impact. It bothers me that they are accumulating on the lake bottom in the first place and lasting so long. For other like-minded anglers, there are alternatives besides giving up fishing or never fishing senkos-type baits again. Another way of looking at the issue is if there are viable alternatives why wouldn't you use them? Like I said, it's all a matter of perspective.

Cheers and thanks for contributing to the discussion!
LK

I have a habit of researching (excessively some would say) before making a decision of any sort these days. I personally don't need a study to tell me that bite sized chunks of plastic in our waterways is a bad thing.

Seems to me that floating litter would just affect different species (birds) than sinking plastic (fish). The one difference being that you could more easily pick up your floating litter and dispose of it properly. And no I don't have a host of papers to prove this hypothesis.

It's funny to hear all the responses to what Smitty had to say...lol
I was thinking the very same thing....threatening Smitty that he will be banned next or that he don't fish anymore...
He is the first one to help new people out when a question is asked... Either way it is what it is until the manufactures of
these plastics come up with something better, which I'm sure is already out there...
just my two cents.. which probably ain't worth much anyways...lol

Yikes... I avoided this one for 24 hours but in the end I could not restrain myself. I have said this before and I will say it again... I am a fisherman . If you wish to cause no harm to fish, dont go fishing! That being said, here is a list of things you can do to help out the aquatic envronment and fish if you are so inclined ( many of these I learned in my travel through the US where some are law in some States):
1) Use steel or synthetic weights instead of lead.
2) Use circle hooks
3) Use barbless hooks or crimp them down (tough sell but this is one of the best for catch and release fishing)
4) Don't fish deeper than 30 feet unless you plan on eating your catch.
5). Dont use treble hooks. Retrofit lures with trebles to single hooks.

Sounds like there are better plastics out there than what I have used. As for the list above, I don't do them all so I admit I am a hypocrite.

In summary, do what you can when you can but in the end our sport involves doing things to fish that they don't appreciate so let's just dial this back a notch.

My two cents... Worthless since we don't use pennies anymore!

Rod

Peron wrote: In summary, do what you can when you can but in the end our sport involves doing things to fish that they don't appreciate so let's just dial this back a notch.

Bingo, Bango, Bongo!

Im a die hard bass angler and I dispose of my plastics properly. When one gets ripped or torn I throw it in a pile on the bottom of the boat then discard them when I get back to shore.

I think its not the serious bass anglers that have a great effect on this as some may think. I believe it would be more the inexperienced or uneducated anglers who dont understand the effect of throwing plastics over board can cause. If we educate ourselves as well as the up and coming anglers what this issue can cause it can be decreased over time. Or plain and simple ban SENKOS!! hahaha

As far as it being painful to not use senkos, I think the exact opposite. Its painful to have to use senkos!