Gord Pyzer sets the record straight on catch limits

[OutdoorActionOntario]

As always, Gord Pyzer wrote a great article....

I found the quote below to be a kicker, and very relevant to what I constantly see around our lakes in this region (I was dumbfounded a few weeks ago on the Rideau Lakes system to see a boat full of Americans unload a basket of bass each and every day over a 7 day period, including several 3 and 4 pounders - sorry, I'm all for a fish fry but this was too much for me.)

From the article: "...there is the mistaken belief by many that so long as anglers stay within "their limit" the resource can't be harmed. But that's just not so. Case in point, on many small- and medium-sized walleye and bass lakes across the country, with moderate to large numbers of cottages, if each property owner harvested one legal limit of fish a year—just four walleye or bass—the lake would be "overfished."

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/What_do_fis ... eally_mean

[Fishoholic]

Interesting article. I don't get thought how an article can say, "case and point, in a small to medium lake if every angler caught just one limit a year then the lake would be overfished" without linking this quote to any scientific data or studies. Just because a guy said it in an article it is fact?

Also at one point it says to keep a legal limit is more of a "greed" thing? So because I keep a limit every now and then, a legal limit to boot, I am being greedy according to this article? I beg to differ as I pay good money and time to fish so I like to bring some home with me instead of paying more money at the grocery store.

It does make you think though about the blanket regs for each zone but to come up with lake specific limits would require a ton more staff and moula. Never hurts to release the undamaged fish but to say an angler is being greedy for keeping a legal limit just irks me a tad. I am all for conservation but I am still going to eat some fish I catch, you'll never catch me buying fish from a store.

I could see how what you saw could be upsetting though! The limits in the regs are catch and possession limits so if they had 5 bass in freezer and then kept 5 more next day I believe they are over their limit because if I am not mistaken it is a catch and possession limit of 5. Not catch 5 a day but have 30 in freezer.

[bl8ant]

If only people cared as much about their fishery as they do their "rights" we wouldn't need articles like this.
Changing people's attitudes is a slow process, lets hope it picks up steam.

[bl8ant]

Interesting article. I don't get thought how an article can say, "case and point, in a small to medium lake if every angler caught just one limit a year then the lake would be overfished" without linking this quote to any scientific data or studies. Just because a guy said it in an article it is fact?

Also at one point it says to keep a legal limit is more of a "greed" thing? So because I keep a limit every now and then, a legal limit to boot, I am being greedy according to this article? I beg to differ as I pay good money and time to fish so I like to bring some home with me instead of paying more money at the grocery store.

It does make you think though about the blanket regs for each zone but to come up with lake specific limits would require a ton more staff and moula. Never hurts to release the undamaged fish but to say an angler is being greedy for keeping a legal limit just irks me a tad. I am all for conservation but I am still going to eat some fish I catch, you'll never catch me buying fish from a store.

I could see how what you saw could be upsetting though! The limits in the regs are catch and possession limits so if they had 5 bass in freezer and then kept 5 more next day I believe they are over their limit because if I am not mistaken it is a catch and possession limit of 5. Not catch 5 a day but have 30 in freezer.

You do realize that you took offense to being labelled greedy and in the same breath went on to justify keeping a limit based on the "good money" you spend fishing rather than spending "more money at the grocery store". I'm sure you realize how that sense of entitlement (based on how much money you have spent) can be viewed as greed.

What does the amount of money you have spent on your sport have to do with the health of the fish population and the pressure it can withstand?
Anyway, I'm off to the ski hill right now. Those runs better be open regardless of how much snow is on the ground...I spent a fortune on these skis.

[Fishoholic]

And in the same article they say if every person fishing a small to medium lake keeps one limit a year the lake is over fished yet they also say blanket regs don't work because every lake is different. What is it? Every lake is different so one medium lake may be overfished if everyone kept one limit but the lake next door, exact same size, may be able to sustain it based on forage, oxygen levels, weed growth, or whatever. Some lakes can handle it some can't.

How is it being greedy wanting to keep some of the fish I catch? I am legally allowed to do it, pay money to do it, but because I don't put every fish back I am greedy? What does not wanting to spend more money for fish at the grocery store, that I already paid for to catch, have to do with being greedy?

[OutdoorActionOntario]

Interesting article. I don't get thought how an article can say, "case and point, in a small to medium lake if every angler caught just one limit a year then the lake would be overfished" without linking this quote to any scientific data or studies. Just because a guy said it in an article it is fact?

Also at one point it says to keep a legal limit is more of a "greed" thing? So because I keep a limit every now and then, a legal limit to boot, I am being greedy according to this article? I beg to differ as I pay good money and time to fish so I like to bring some home with me instead of paying more money at the grocery store.

It does make you think though about the blanket regs for each zone but to come up with lake specific limits would require a ton more staff and moula. Never hurts to release the undamaged fish but to say an angler is being greedy for keeping a legal limit just irks me a tad. I am all for conservation but I am still going to eat some fish I catch, you'll never catch me buying fish from a store.

I could see how what you saw could be upsetting though! The limits in the regs are catch and possession limits so if they had 5 bass in freezer and then kept 5 more next day I believe they are over their limit because if I am not mistaken it is a catch and possession limit of 5. Not catch 5 a day but have 30 in freezer.

I don't doubt the veracity behind his commentary because he has a 30 year career as a fisheries biologist and can pick up the phone and have people with Ph.D's talking fish stuff with him - so his information is basically second to none in my opinion. I think sometimes he holds back on names if people are still with the MNR or talking about a sensitive issue like harvesting of fish... I don't doubt him for a second, though.

As for the greed comment, I can't speak to what the author meant, but some people want to keep all the fish they catch, and I think the Doc is just saying this is poor judgement, but this is just an interpretation on my part.

Personally I don't keep every walleye I boat just to feed a few people and I never keep bass, they swim away every time but this is only personal preference (my father-in-law was very upset last summer that I let a 2 pound bass go instead of keeping it for our fish fry that night, even though we already had 2 very nice walleye keepers for 3 people to feed on along with all the fixin's like home fries, corn and salad.)

One thing I have noticed is that people think back lakes that are less pressured and can handle such harvesting, but in many ways these bodies of water are actually MORE sensitive, and if you take 2-3 big bass out of a single bay on a back lake I have been told by a prominent researcher that you probably just removed the entire genetic diversity and strength of the bass population in that area that you are fishing. It could take it years to recover.

I fish a small back lake quite frequently and I am seeing this happen as people keep all the bass they catch and the amount of big fish being caught has drastically dropped. They keep the bass now because they already over-fished the walleye in the lake, keeping everything they caught. Now they are doing the same thing to the bass and year after year the size of the bass I am catching is dropping dramatically. It's extremely sad to see happen in real-time and the people keeping the bigger fish have absolutely no clue to the damage they are doing to the body of water in question I am referencing (it's not around here, in fact about 6 hours away...)

[bl8ant]

Basing your decision to keep one fish or a limit of fish on the amount of money you have spent fishing is by it's very nature greedy.

In fact, your decision is based on greed with that mentality regardless of the fishery's health. Even if you could take 35 fish and only took 1 your reasoning would remain the same.

[OutdoorActionOntario]

I just wanted to say that when RJ posted the "how did your opening day go" a few weeks back, I had written a huge essay about the American tourists I saw killing huge bass each and every day at the cottage I was staying at, but I deleted the whole thing because I didn't want to hi-jack that post with my negativity and what some would likely see as "sour grapes". But when I read this article, I really felt compelled to post it and tell my story.

HOWEVER, I want to be extremely clear that I have ZERO ISSUES with anyone keep their catch for eating purposes. I fully support the right of people to consume what they catch from fishing and hunting, and will always defend that right.

I guess my only "point" if I had one other than sharing the article and story would be to suggest that, whether bass or walleye, we should always let the big ones go to let them grow and carry on their genetics through breeding.

[banjo]

If there is science behind leaving the big ones go... then you are saying people shouldn't be keeping Crappie bigger than 7 inches, sunfish, Jumbo perch should be released... It's a slippery slope wanting to create limits on something you enjoy doing. The end result will more likely be a ban on fishing, then more fish to be caught.
We as fisherman should be concerned more about habitat conservation instead of limits. Awareness of good release practices and the knowledge that you can put fish back is always good, but shaming someone for keeping fish isn't good. As a kid fishing, all my relatives got mad at me for releasing all my fish, now people get mad if I keep one.

[Fishoholic]

At ontarioactionoutdoors: I hear ya about Gord being a well respected and knowledgeable source, it just helps when they state something like that to link it o where thy are getting that info from or how they came to that conclusion. It makes it even more reputable and shows it not just coming off the top of his head. I get ya though, he sure knows a crap ton more than I'll ever know. And I guess I should have stated that majority of fish I keep are trout lakes and a lot of them are stocked anyways.

At Banjo: your damned if you and your damned if you don't eh!! Conversation of habitat makes sense. More places they have to live and breed the more fish you'd think.

At bl8ant: some people buy their fish at the grocery store, some people fish for them. I invest a ton of money in gear, gas, time, accommedations, licenses, park fees etc to participate in the sport I love, the sport of going out and catching my dinner. Sometimes I keep my limit other times I dont, depending on what I need. To suggest I am greedy because of this is way off base IMO. If it was up to the likes of people like you no one would be fishing to save the population of fish but what's the point of saving the population if we can't enjoy them? Fish are a natural resource and we has humans are hunters and gatherers. Someone who follows all of the rules and keeps some fish for their hard work is not greedy they are enjoying what this planet has to offer they way it is meant to be. You can keep eating those Lake Ontario or farmed fish from the grocery store all you want but I'll keep eating my fresh fish and if you think that is greedy then so be it.

[bl8ant]

This is quite literally the most ignorant thing I have ever read on this site.

what's the point of saving the population if we can't enjoy them?

Dude are you kidding? What is the point of saving the population if you cannot enjoy fishing for them—are you for real?
They mean nothing unless they serve a specific purpose to you? And that's not greed?

Heard the bald eagle population is collapsing, meh—I'm not in to bird watching.

You pose better arguments against yourself than I ever could. I'm done with this thread.

[zippyfx]

One of the difficulty is that most restrictions are generalized for the entire FMZ and each local area may have it's own pressures and issues.

The relatively new walleye restrictions in FMZ18 are designed to protect the population in the zone but may be too lax for some areas. There are sanctuaries and exceptions for Musky but not much else.

If you are a responsible fisherman you should be expected to do whats right for the area you are fishing.

I am personally infavour of trophy type limits (1 over, 3 under a given length type of thing)

As always discretion is the better part of valor.

[CNs]

Does anyone know how to get a hold of Gord Pyzer? I am at work and most sites are blocked (not this one though)

I would be interested for him to join this conversation. His article for obvious reasons was a little light on facts/science etc.

[bl8ant]

Someone who follows all of the rules and keeps some fish for their hard work is not greedy they are enjoying what this planet has to offer they way it is meant to be. You can keep eating those Lake Ontario or farmed fish from the grocery store all you want but I'll keep eating my fresh fish and if you think that is greedy then so be it.

No rules were broken when the Newfoundland cod fishery collapsed.
The original article posted here explains specifically how a fishery can be hurt even by anglers following the rules—that's the point of the article.

Enjoying what this planet has to offer is no more an argument to harvest fish than it is an argument for catch and release.

[Fishoholic]

Bl8ant: your arguing about keeping fish on a freaking fishing forum......
What I meant by my point, I guess I have to break it down exactly for you, was:

If it was up to people like you we would not be allowed to fish because we need to protect the fish. Your a fisherman right, but if we were not allowed to fish because it upsets people like you that fish are being kept then bye bye fishing, no one is allowed to fish anymore. Get my point now? It has nothing to do with me wanting all the fish for myself. Seems to me like your being the greedy one wanting everyone to put back all their fish they catch so you can have a chance to catch them later.

I fish, I keep fish I put fish back. I care about the future of fisheries as a whole but I still keep some fish to eat. You should try it sometime, they are tastey. i am not going to keep arguin with you, you have your point of view and I have mine, so be it. No need to attack anyone over it.

Sorry to get away from the original topic a bit ontarioactionoutdoors

And well put zippy fx "if you are a responsible fisherman you should be expected to do what's. Right for the area you are fishing"
That about sums it up!