FMZ 18 Open House thoughts...

Post by RJ » Tue May 12, 2009 8:07 pm

Did my part tonight by making the trek out to Perth to the FMZ 18 Open House with regards to panfish regulations within the zone....

I prepared myself to present my view in supporting the need for limits on panfish...I did some research of regs in other zones and paid particular attention to regulations south of the border....

Here's my thoughts on the issue at hand.....this isn't meant to be an assault on anyone....just my view and from what I have personally seen....rather than re-type I'll cut and paste my notes...

I fish in the ballpark of 100 days a year recreationally. Throughout each year I'll fish for every species that this area offers. There isn't a fish in this zone that last year I didn't spend at least one day fishing for. I guess what I am trying to illustrate is that I am out there on the water seeing what's going on with the resource and feel that I can speak to its state a little bit.

One thing I am guilty of is spending way too much time on the internet. Internet message boards related to fishing have given me the opportunity to fish virtually everywhere in this province. From james Bay to Lake Erie, Niagara River to Lake Ontario, the Kawarthas Lakes to the Great St. Lawrence River I've fished them all. But where do I prefer to fish?...Zone 18. I've had countless guests from all over come to fish our area and they are all blown away by the quality of the fishing we have here. I'd like it to stay like that! and I think allowing the MNR to manage the resource will allow that to happen.

One trend I am noticing is more and more people are targetting panfish. Whether in spring or thru the ice its popularity is growing. Being an avid ice fisherman Id wager 50% of anglers are now targetting panfish. New age ice fishing electronics and high quality rods and line have turned the angler who sat and watched tip-ups all day into a lake hopping panfish chaser. Why? Because it's fun and a challenge. Our lakes have a great number of quality fish in them. Some of my most enjoyable days last winter were trying out a new lake and finding a school of big bluegill or perch that kept us busy all day.

Do I keep fish for the table? You are darn right I do! My family of 4 keeps our limits of crappie every year. So that's 120 a year. We enjoy a fish fry about once a month and by years end we usually have friends and family over for a big fish fry to eat up what we have left. What I think this shows is that you can easily keep enough fish for plenty of meals and play within a responsible limit to preserve the resource for the future.

Clearly our MNR is underfunded, that is no debate. To give you an idea how badly, like I said I fish 100 plus days a year and have for many years. I've been stopped once by a CO in my life. ONCE! I truly feel for the CO's whos passion to protect our resources is held back by funding.

I personally was thrilled to see as the new regs came out in 08/09 that they had put a limit of panfish. I've seen the pontoon boats loaded with multiple 5 gallon pails and 2 guys in it and filling them daily. Frankly it sickens me. Sure it appears that the lakes can handle it, until when?? stop it now before it's too late.

When this new reg was announced the resort owners pleaded for this limit to be removed so their American clientele would return. Has anyone ever wondered why they come up here to fish our panfish? Because they have basically decimated their panfish fishery down there. New stringent regs have been put in place in NY and PA in attempt to rebuild their populations. Why allow it to happen here?

I don't want to get into an American tourist bashing theme as certainly in these economic times we can't be turning away visitors, but I think a new approach needs to be taken. Promote the great pike and walleye fishery for those who wish to visit in May as well as the panfish fishery that they love so much. The Bass fishing in this zone is unmatched anywhere else in this country in my opinion. Promote that! Facilitating and aiding in the commercial panfish slaughter that goes on is irresponsible and short-sighted.

Notice I said Commercial fishing. There is no way anyone could consume in a year the numbers of fish that are being taken. This isn't about a family up for a weeks vacation in the spring time. If limits were put in place of say 50 per day/ 100 possession that would allow a family of 4 up to 400 fish to take home or as I see it..800 fillets or 16 meals of 50 fillets for the year until they return the follwing year. Plenty in my eyes!

I think what irks me the most about this issue is it is not a fishing issue at all. It is about an abuse of a resource, it has nothing to do with sport or recreation. I'd hazard a guess that this regulation affected a very small % of anglers. The ones who it did effect are the ones flat out abusing the resource.

That's where I stand on it, I really wish I was able to express it to the people who oppose it tonight at the open house....but EVERYONE that was there were for limits being put in place!

Sadly the attendance over the 4 nights has been less than stellar. It was a great opportunity to discuss and ask any questions you may have about our fisheries with the people that know. Several heavy hitters knowledge wise were there tonight in Perth that were just a pleasure to listen to talk about the resource. You realize very quickly how our resource is in the right hands if the higher ups allow the research and science to lead the way.

What the creel surveys show is that our panfish fishery is on the decline. Lake specific information was posted and when its right in front of you it's somewhat disturbing. Overall size of fish and numbers have been decreasing steadily. All this info can be found on the MNR site in regards to creel surveys.

The greatest indicator of what has gone on was a random stop that was conducted at a border crossing last June. In a 3 hour stretch, 55,000 panfish crossed the border. Read it again. 55,000. That was a real eye opener to the MNR and the biologists.

I'll likely get attacked and scoffed at for some of this....that's ok....all I'm repeating is facts. Some may sat "Pfft..it's just sunfish"....what do you think your 5 pound bass eats?...or your 50 inch muskie?...it effects everything.

I believe the process after these open houses is to take it to the Minister for review....let's hope she has the foresight to follow the science and recommendations of people who know. Let's all hope.

RJ

Post by **Hookup** » Tue May 12, 2009 8:28 pm

Some great information in this post RJ. I agree, prevention is better than solution here and in most cases.

Post by JP » Tue May 12, 2009 9:34 pm

Thanks RJ for the great info.

I will be watching this thread and the MNR website for more information for sure.

Cheers
JP

Post by **Jigs** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:52 pm

Thank you, RJ;

Glad to see some folks on side regards the plundering of the pannies.

I argued for years for a limit on Crappies; this at a time when one could go out every day and fill a 5 gal pail. Believe me, that time existed.

Now the limit is 30/day. Try and catch 30. Not very many years ago you could catch 300. No joke.

Truth is, you cannot catch prespawn fish in any significant number, and hope that particular fish will continue to reproduce in the same numbers it did in past years. Common sense.

I was told that there were so many Crappies, "they could never be fished out". Anyone remember the story of the Passenger Pigeon? Extinct now. They used to darken the skys..........Long before my time.

When the number of Crappies being caught fell, those in denial said that the "water clarity" had changed, and they were harder to catch............
They most certainly are, but water clarity has little to do with it.

This is not to say that one cannot have a good night and catch a bunch, but overall, the numbers are WAY WAY down.

In the Mississippi Lake, the size and number of pannies is down, and one doesn't see the boats with bamboo rods heaving sunnies over the side as one did 15 years ago. Why?.............they ain't there.

Anyway, I'm preaching to the choir, here. Unfortunately, my MPP and MP don't answer their mail.

Good on ya, RJ. Best of luck.

Post by **Paddler** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:27 pm

Shame on the resort owners lobbying against strict regs.
And shame on those that abuse the resource.

In PA, we've had what are called panfish enhancement regs for may years.
It's a 9" minimum and 20 fish limit.
It works well.

Nice report, RJ.

Post by **Musky51** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:11 pm

RJ, excellent post... we have a great thing here and it has to be managed so that we can enjoy it in the future.

Post by **Badger Shark** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:42 pm

RJ great read, I am not a panfish guy, infact I cant stand catching them but I do agree whole heartedly in what you have written. I have seen it every time I go to Crotch lake, we sit and watch guys come off the water with tonnes of fish and specifically panfish. I have even seen a pike of , no word of a lie, around 12 or 14 inches.

We have spoken to some of these guys and they just scoff and say who is going to stop me?

Even the lodge owner says there just isnt enough enforcement. He points theses things out but what can he do? They are allowed to keep as much as they want.
The only place I have been stopped multiple times has been Quint. I was stopped once on Crotch but it was OPP and they were not concerned with what was in the livewell even though I opened it for him.
I was stopped once on the Ottawa and the guy was in his own beat up tinny with a 9.9 and didnt speak english. He never checked to see what we had on board, just our licenses.

Anyway RJ I know we have had issues in the past on the board but good for you on bringing this up and presenting the facts. It is time the government wakes up and puts more money into prtecting its resources.

Maybe we should ban the white buckets!

Post by **JimmyBuffett** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:58 am

While I would need 3 sunday crunches to entirely absorb every detail of the novel RJ wrote....

I'll express my views as I see em'...

Limit on panfish... absolutely

top priority.... absolutely not...

IMO there are far more important fisheries and issues pressing in this great province of ours...

Increase enforcement is top priority.... that is all

Thanks

Post by **crankbait58** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:01 am

Great ino RJ - thanks for taking the time to attend and report. As you have rightly stated, taking these forage fish out of the food chain in those kind of numbers could have staggering consequences for the whole fishery and someone with regulatory powers needs to wake up to that fact. Sign me up for the "ban the buckets" petition!!

Post by **fatluke** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:34 am

Check how its made wrote:While I would need 3 sunday crunches to entirely absorb every detail of the novel RJ wrote....

Thanks

Speaking of crunches......

Good read RJ.

55 000 is very staggering.

I would be spending my time enforcing OOS catch and keeps, slot sizes, and min/max sizes though.

Post by **bm_attar** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:12 am

RJ, I totally agree with you. But a law is useless if it is not enforced. I was luckier than you in that a CO came and checked my license twice in many times of fishing.

On another note, and since (almost) nobody here seems to like Carp fishing (I know you do RJ), why was the MNR always hesitant to allow 2 rods per angler for Carp fishing to bring it to bar with the US regulations? Their argument was that "how could we know you are using both rods to catch carp". In my opinion, this is so lame given the number of OOS fishing people do. Even on this forum, skim through the reports and see how many times people get an OOS fish and just keep fishing. Allowing 2 rods for Carp fishing would keep the US fishing tourism healthy, and will also relieve the pressure on panfish.

My 2 cents.

Post by **Jimmy_1** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:47 am

Awsome RJ!

We need more of your calibre!

Thank YOU!

J

Post by **Wallyboss** » Wed May 13, 2009 8:38 am

Thanks RJ, I totally agree with you on this one. Panfish are a hoot to catch, if you have the right equipment. And all make a tasty treat. Let's regulate so we can enjoy for years to come.

Post by **Pints** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:38 am

Thanks RJ for taking the time to attend and report(I didn't attend, but did do the online survey). I'm in agreement with you on this one. As I posted about C & R for Dow's Lake, the size and numbers are down. Can't attribute it all to winter kill, water clarity or the opening and closing of the locks. Personal observance of the catch and keep is pretty good evidence of why the stocks are down.
If no one believes regs and restrictions are needed, especially during the spawning season. Just look to the east coast at what happened to our cod and herring industry.

Post by **Scum Frog** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:56 am

RJ - Agree 100%

I too have recently been "turned on" to panfishing - crappies, perch & bluegills. a) they are great fun to catch, b) generally they provide enough action to keep my kids busy and develop a love of fishing and c) they tase great!

IMO 55,000 panfish crossing the border is on the conservative side and what is suppose to be a recreational fishery is now becoming a comercial fishery. I'm not saying only our American friends are guilty of this, I'm sure it is equally being abused by residents.
In the end, all our resources need protection. As stated above, even if you don't give a rats butt about panfish, your beloved bass, pike, walleye, musky, salmon, and trout do!